I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...
-
... in order to be allowed to rule on things they have no training in. Seriously, WHY THE FUCK are we allowing a few old people who probably still use typewriters, to decide this shit? And shame on the SCOTUS for refusing to hear the case, that was utter bullshit.
Software Patents and API copyrights cannot die in a fire fast enough.
Second Oracle v. Google trial could lead to huge headaches for developers
Oracle bought Java and now wants a staggering $9 billion from Google.
-
@Vaire I really think that at this stage you and @blakeyrat need your own personal threads in theme of "you know what grinds my gears"
-
@DogsB said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
@Vaire I really think that at this stage you and @blakeyrat need your own personal threads in theme of "you know what grinds my gears"
-
Your idea of letting engineers deal with the law sounds like it would probably be even worse though.
-
@boomzilla said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Your idea of letting engineers deal with the law sounds like it would probably be even worse though.
I didn't say engineers should deal with the law. We could write the test the judges have to be able to pass to rule on issues the judges OBVIOUSLY know nothing about, though. :grumpy:
-
@Vaire That doesn't really sound any better to me.
-
@Vaire said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Seriously, WHY THE FUCK are we allowing a few old people who probably still use typewriters, to decide this shit?
Was it a matter of fact or a matter of law?
-
Let's just embrace the future where APIs can be copyrighted. No more Wine, no more console emulators, heck, no more VMs without Intel's permission.
-
@boomzilla said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
@Vaire That doesn't really sound any better to me.
I am all right with that
-
-
@boomzilla said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Your idea of letting engineers deal with the law sounds like it would probably be even worse though.
I think The Simpsons did an episode like that.
-
@anonymous234 The real key is to work out where Oracle can be sued to hell and back over this, assuming their legal theory holds up in practice.
-
@Vaire I can think of an alternative:
Let's make a group of a few thousand developers, find a desert island, and move there. Then we can proclaim ourselves as an independent nation, and start our legal system where patents are sane, copyright lasts for only 25 years, and license agreements are 1 paragraph long instead of 30 pages.
-
@anonymous234 We could call it "Ütopia" (with the Unicode, so it causes everyone who doesn't understand Unicode's programs to crash)
-
@anonymous234 said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
@Vaire I can think of an alternative:
Let's make a group of a few thousand developers, find a desert island, and move there. Then we can proclaim ourselves as an independent nation, and start our legal system where patents are sane, copyright lasts for only 25 years, and license agreements are 1 paragraph long instead of 30 pages.
That is a decent plan, EXCEPT for the fact that the male to female ratio among our people is like 10:1, if not worse, and I am not fond of most dudes :P
-
@Vaire said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
That is a decent plan, EXCEPT for the fact that the male to female ratio among our people is like 10:1, if not worse, and I am not fond of most dudes
It's OK, you'll all starve before that matters.
-
@boomzilla said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
@Vaire said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
That is a decent plan, EXCEPT for the fact that the male to female ratio among our people is like 10:1, if not worse, and I am not fond of most dudes
It's OK, you'll all starve before that matters.
What's with all the pessimism today Boomy?
-
@Vaire What pessimism? Exterminating Utopian experiments is my idea of fun!
-
@boomzilla said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
@Vaire What pessimism? Exterminating Utopian experiments is my idea of fun!
You sound like you need a hug
-
@Vaire Nah...but I haven't been punching anyone lately, so I guess I am a bit on edge.
-
How about we just send @ben_lubar back in time to ensure that Android uses Go instead of Java. Then Oracle would sue Mojang.
-
-
@ben_lubar Great! Then why does Android even have its own JDK at all?
-
@anonymous234 said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Let's just embrace the future where APIs can be copyrighted.
Was that really what the judge ruled? AFAIK, you can still implement another company's API without a problem, you're just not allowed to copy&paste the interface definitions.
-
Alsup's ruling was roundly overturned by the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, which said APIs are creative works that deserve copyright protection.
wat.
That's the equivalent of Apple saying that their Lightning port is copyrighted and nobody can build a plug that fits into it. Then again... well, copyright at least doesn't apply; they have to abuse the patent system to do that.
-
@Vaire If a law requires special training to be able to rule on it correctly, it's a bad law. Therefore, this is not the correct solution:
Judges should have to pass a test in order to be allowed to rule on things they have no training in
This is the correct solution:
Software Patents and API copyrights cannot die in a fire fast enough.
-
@anotherusername said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Alsup's ruling was roundly overturned by the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, which said APIs are creative works that deserve copyright protection.
wat.
That's the equivalent of Apple saying that their Lightning port is copyrighted and nobody can build a plug that fits into it. Then again... well, copyright at least doesn't apply; they have to abuse the patent system to do that.
Unfortunately, "interfaces being considered creative works" is the foundation of restricted key security. Copyright law is the only thing lock manufacturers have to enforce a rule that no unauthorized party can sell a compatible blank.
-
@Jaime no, not copyright... those are also protected by patents.
- Level 2 (high): patented keys. By definition, patented keys are restricted. They also have the added feature of being protected by patent law. Anyone who sells such a key without permission of the patent holder could face financial penalties.
- Level 1 (highest): factory-only patented keys. These keys cannot be cut locally. In addition to the restrictions above, users must send an authorization request to the factory to have additional keys cut and strict records are kept of each key.
-
@anotherusername Damn... that makes it worse. Keys could be used as precedent for patenting APIs. Patents last for a shorter duration than copyright, but a lot stronger.
-
@Jaime said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
enforce a rule that no unauthorized party can sell a compatible blank.
Tell me how well that actually works in practice?
-
@Jaime said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Keys could be used as precedent for patenting APIs
Not generally speaking... there's already precedent that's been laid on software patents. The patented keys get away with it because they're produced via an actual physical milling process which is considered innovative and thus patent-worthy. Software generally tends to take abstract ideas and perform them on a computer; this is typically not patentable. Further reading, if you're interested:
-
@Tsaukpaetra said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
@Jaime said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
enforce a rule that no unauthorized party can sell a compatible blank.
Tell me how well that actually works in practice?
It keeps honest people honest. Anyone with a milling machine and an impression of a controlled key can duplicate it without much effort.
The main use case is preventing your typical employee from going down to the hardware store or locksmith and getting a copy of their work key before being fired. No reputable business will sell illegal blanks because they actually have something to lose.
-
@boomzilla said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
I haven't been punching anyone lately, so I guess I am a bit on edge.
You need to lure some people onto your lawn to attack them?
-
@Jaime said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Anyone with a milling machine
Or 3D printer.
-
@boomzilla screw you, I can deal with wilderness. Mostly. As long as it's not cold. Or wet. Or hot. Or there are bugs. Or... Ok, fine, we're fucked...
-
@Onyx said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Or there are bugs
There are always bugs
-
@Buddy said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
There are always bugs
-
@Vaire said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
And now I want to watch Willow.
-
@boomzilla said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
It's OK, you'll all starve before that matters.
Do plants not grow in desert islands?
As long as there's rainwater and sunlight, you can survive in it.
-
@anonymous234 said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
As long as there's rainwater and sunlight, you can survive in it.
We're talking about a bunch of software developers here.
Being a desert island, I'd expect too little rain and too much sun.
-
@abarker
there are MUCH WORSE ways to kill a few hours ;)
Don't fight it, jooooooin uuuuuuus
-
@Vaire It'll have to wait until after work. I'm positive my wife won't mind, it's one of her favorite movies.
-
@abarker said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
@Vaire It'll have to wait until after work. I'm positive my wife won't mind, it's one of her favorite movies.
+1 respect for your household's taste
-
@Vaire I am at the point now where I think people should have to pass a grammar test in order to be allowed to create new topics.
-
@Greybeard but my second generation ancestors don't need to be tested so I can make forum topics!
aside, the general level of stupid on online forums is increasing :(
-
@Vaire said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
... in order to be allowed to rule on things they have no training in.
Well, the witnesses are trained and aren't any better.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/in-google-v-oracle-the-nerds-are-getting-owned
Eric Schmidt sought to describe APIs and languages using power plugs as an analogy. Jonathan Schwartz tried his hand at explaining with “breakfast menus,” only to have Judge William Alsup respond witheringly, “I don't know what the witness just said. The thing about the breakfast menu makes no sense.
No one bothered to challenge Schwartz’s apparent belief that hamburgers are commonly featured on breakfast menus, as he had already moved on to confusing the jury on another front: the operating system GNU, which is a pearl of the free software community. When asked by Judge Alsup to “explain GNU in 30 seconds,” he launched into a reverent speech about how a “very smart man” believed that software should be free.
Before he could actually name Richard M. Stallman, or give the “free as in freedom” speech, Alsup interrupted him. “That’s not 30 seconds,” the judge said, and managed to truncate the stirring legend of the Free Software Movement to a few minutes of terse explanations, including what the acronym GNU stands for: GNU is Not Unix.
“The G part stands for GNU?” Alsup asked in disbelief.
“Yes,” said Schwartz on the stand.
“That doesn’t make any sense”
-
@El_Heffe TIL that @blakeyrat is the judge in that case.
-
@El_Heffe said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Eric Schmidt sought to describe APIs and languages using power plugs as an analogy. Jonathan Schwartz tried his hand at explaining with “breakfast menus,” only to have Judge William Alsup respond witheringly, “I don't know what the witness just said. The thing about the breakfast menu makes no sense.
Honest question here:
Are the basic concepts of computing really that hard for the general population to understand? Analogies are never perfect, and I don't see the point in having them.
A processor executes lots of simple instructions to manipulate numbers in memory. To make them easier to work with, we split them into "chunks" we call functions. To make those "functions" easier to understand, we design functions to have a specific set of "input" and "output" data and does a specific operation (those are not hard rules, but design objectives). Etc.
Yes, the whole process is very complex for someone who has never thought about it, but no single part in it seems too hard to understand. It might take days, or weeks, or maybe months, but it's a goddamn multi-billion dollar case.
Personally I say stick those people in a classroom and don't let them out until they can all write a JVM by themselves.
-
@anonymous234 said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Personally I say stick those people in a classroom and don't let them out until they can all write a JVM by themselves.
Or, better yet, scrap the law and replace it with something sane. You don't need special training to judge a murder case.
-
@anonymous234 said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Honest question here:
Are the basic concepts of computing really that hard for the general population to understand?When they're being explained with an analogy involving breakfast menus, power plugs, and hamburgers?
Probably yes.
@anonymous234 said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Analogies are never perfect, and I don't see the point in having them.
You're not Schmidt.
@anonymous234 said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
A processor executes lots of simple instructions to manipulate numbers in memory. To make them easier to work with, we split them into "chunks" we call functions. To make those "functions" easier to understand, we design functions to have a specific set of "input" and "output" data and does a specific operation (those are not hard rules, but design objectives). Etc.
That's a terrible explanation.
@anonymous234 said in I am at the point now, where I think Judges should have to pass a test...:
Personally I say stick those people in a classroom and don't let them out until they can all write a JVM by themselves.
I say get right to the meat of the issue, and when questions come up then you go back and explain things.
Key control - Wikipedia
