TV, or monitor?
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OK, so I'm in the murky situation where I'm looking at buying a viewing device.
I don't want to pay the TV Tax, when it's going to be for my Wii, PS3 and occasional Netflix viewing, and I'm probably OK with something around the 28" mark given the size of the room though widescreen 32" wouldn't be outrageous.
All the monitors I found over 28" are in the "ultra wide" category which sucks with its 21:9 like ratio anyway (which sort of limits the size anyway)
First up, are monitors any good for this sort of thing, and any ideas on getting a non retarded size?
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What TV tax? Every time I've looked, TVs are cheaper. I have a 39" 4K Seiki TV that I paid $280 for. It makes a great monitor.
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@Circuitsoft @Arantor is British, so it's a literal tax.
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@ben_lubar Until 10 seconds ago, I thought Germany had the most stupid taxes.
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@asdf said in TV, or monitor?:
I thought Germany had the most stupid taxes.
It's worse--they have vans that drive around looking for TVs.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
First up, are monitors any good for this sort of thing, and any ideas on getting a non retarded size?
FWIW, watching videos full-screen seems to be fine on my 23" monitor.
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@FrostCat said in TV, or monitor?:
It's worse--they have vans that drive around looking for TVs.
Germany? Not anymore, since you now have to pay for public TV whether you own a TV or not. Or were you talking about the UK?
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
First up, are monitors any good for this sort of thing
If you're going to use it as a TV, buy a TV. I wondered the same 6 months ago and ended up buying a TV, because large monitors are either extremely expensive or inconvenient (e.g. no remote) or crappy.
@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
32"
That seems a bit small. How close to the TV will you be? I live in a very small apartment, bought a 43'' TV and now regret not getting the 50'' or 55'' version.
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@Arantor Most things I tested that are sold as TVs would cut the image at it's borders. And monitors usually won't have speakers.
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@FrostCat In Germany, we used to have people who went from door to door looking for TVs, computers and radios until two years ago as well, so I wasn't sure.
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@fbmac said in TV, or monitor?:
And monitors usually won't have speakers.
Any that are above the most basic tier should. Although admittedly they'll probably be puny.
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@fbmac said in TV, or monitor?:
Most things I tested that are sold as TVs would cut the image at it's borders.
Every TV I've seen in the last 5 years has configuration options for that.
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@FrostCat not any more they don't. Firstly they buttume any address without a TV is automatically lying and secondly if I actually buy a TV I will have to give my name and address so they will know I have a TV.
Add £150 per year for a thing I won't use, and resent paying on principle. It might as well be a literal tax, it functions like one.
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@asdf I'm using it to play video games and maybe Netflix via the PS3, it won't really be a TV.
The living room in the flat is something like 18' by 13', with a sofa along the longer wall facing the mantelpiece. It's also not rectangular, as the front of the living room is a bay window, it's only 18' long at the centre when I measured it, and I don't particularly fancy the TV being in the bay.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
I don't want to pay the TV Tax,
Wait huh?
I thought the TV Tax was based on usage, not simply owning the equipment. Just don't plug an antenna into it, and you're fine... right?
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@blakeyrat no... You have to provide your name and address when you buy it.
Proving you don't use it for non reception purposes is in theory doable but you typically have to go through months of bullshit, borderline harassment and possible court cases that come with this shit. Because the act of owning a TV is practically guilty before you start, because "no one buys a TV just for their game console".
And it's still £150 a year for a "service" I don't use.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
Proving you don't use it for non reception purposes is in theory doable but you typically have to go through months of bullshit, borderline harassment and possible court cases that come with this shit.
So? Fuck them. Do it. Advance the cause of moving your shitty country from the 17th to the 21st century. Then murder the queen. I'm an American so all my advice is genius.
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@blakeyrat I have already had several harassment letters from them on the basis that "your property does not have a licence therefore you might be illegal" when I didn't even own a TV. Imagine how much fucking fun that will be if I did actually own one.
I'd really rather not legitimise their bullshit by not owning an "actual TV" in the first place.
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@Arantor Well I think you're f'ed because, again, this is the 21st century and there's literally no difference between a monitor and a TV except a TV has a tuner; and even that isn't necessarily a differentiater.
Find out exactly what their definition of "TV" is and maybe we can find a device for you. Because whatever definition they use is undoubtedly 47% random bullshit. It'd have to be.
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@blakeyrat nope, I didn't.
Buying a monitor does not invoke the magic disclosure deal, and it's much easier to show it with a monitor if the bullshit ever happened than it ever would be with a regular TV.
If I wasn't renting, this would be a non issue because I could revoke their right of access to the property then their department of harassment would leave me alone knowing full well the couldn't get in. (Have done this, is awesome) but alas, renting.
Technically, they're trying to fuck everyone over because even a regular laptop "potentially" meets their criteria for reception equipment. If it has an internet connection and thus watch BBC programs live as broadcast, that is a licence-requiring scenario.
That's why there is so much bullshit, I own a ton of devices that theoretically could be used to watch live content, this shit potentially opens me up to trying to prove I didn't watch live content, which is basically impossible. Even proving an absence of watching would be hard.
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@Arantor lucky brits.
In Denmark you only need Internet faster than 256k (total) to qualify.
If you have that,you have to pay.oh yeah and it's ~ 2500 dkk yearly here ~260£
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
if I actually buy a TV I will have to give my name and address so they will know I have a TV.
What a country.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
You have to provide your name and address when you buy it.
Wha'ps if you pay cash and give them a not obviously fake name and address?
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There are at least two web sites you should review:
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/telling-us-you-dont-need-a-tv-licenceAnd one that might be useful:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/bills-and-utilities/tv/the-legal-way-to-avoid-paying-the-tv-licence-fee/That aside, my personal view is to get a monitor. No TV I have used as a second screen has ever provided a clear sharp image. The picture quality of monitors always seem sharper.
Move away fro high street outlets and "popular" computer suppliers as they will only physically stock what sells. i.e search online. There are large screen monitors that have a proper aspect ratio.
Of course, there may be budgeting considerations - another reason to shop online for lesser known brands.
2 examples:
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
If I wasn't renting
As a renter of a home I'm registered in I have the same rights as an owner when it comes to letting people in my house e.g. I'm only required to let people in who are registered at the same address. Everybody else practically requires a court order, including the home owner.
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@blakeyrat said in TV, or monitor?:
Find out exactly what their definition of "TV" is and maybe we can find a device for you.
In all likelihood, some variant of "You can watch BBC on it".
AFAIK, using a monitor with a game console works fine. Speakers will be crappy or non-existent, but they're crappy on TVs too.
The reverse, a TV as a monitor on a PC, you want to avoid at all cost. Almost all TVs still incur viewing delays even if you manage to disable its image optimization features.
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http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one
I'm pretty sure you need a "TV licence" whether you have a TV or not.
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@anonymous234 said in TV, or monitor?:
I'm pretty sure you need a "TV licence" whether you have a TV or not.
Only if you're watching it 'as live' or recording it on a DVR; if you only watch stuff on catch-up services, you don't need one
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@ben_lubar said in TV, or monitor?:
@Circuitsoft @Arantor is British, so it's a literal tax.
@FrostCat said in TV, or monitor?:
It's worse--they have vans that drive around looking for TVs.
You don't get taxed for having a TV. You only have to pay the tax if you watch live broadcasts. That means that you have to pay the tax if you don't have a TV, but watch live broadcasts on your phone, tablet, computer or other device.
Having a TV does not mean you need to pay the tax (called a "TV licence"). I was considering not renewing my TV licence this year, but kept it so I can watch the F1 coverage. Once the F1 is no longer on free to air TV I will get rid of it.
@Arantor is right that they will harass you if you don't have a licence though. My friend bought a new house, and it was literally a building site for an entire year, where they clearly didn't live. The TV licence people came and demanded to look around to make sure they didn't have a TV plugged into an aerial. They are fuckers.
So while it's technically do-able to legally not have a licence, I'm not sure if it's worth it for everyone.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
You have to provide your name and address when you buy it.
How new is this? I didn't have to the last time I bought a TV.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
I have already had several harassment letters from them on the basis that "your property does not have a licence therefore you might be illegal" when I didn't even own a TV. Imagine how much fucking fun that will be if I did actually own one.
I'd really rather not legitimise their bullshit by not owning an "actual TV" in the first place.
Really don't worry. Just ignore the letters and if anyone comes round in person tell them the TV isn't hooked up to receive and shut the door. They cannot do anything.
They have hardly any powers and rely almost entirely on intimidation and misleading people. It is not up to you to prove your innocence, it's up to them to prove you need a license. They pretty much have to catch your receiving TV with the detector van, which they can't do if you're not receiving it, and if you act like you're not falling for their bullsh*t they won't even bother to try - they'll go and harass someone more easily intimidated.
They're evil, and I'm sure they're breaking some laws, but they're pretty laughable if you know how powerless they really are.
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Going back to the OP, I've been using a TV as my sole display for about seven years now. First it was a 42" Philips LCD, and now it's a 50" LG LED, both running at 1920x1080p 60hz.
So far, I can't say I've ever noticed any problems. The only real negative is that as I usually sit on the sofa with a wireless keyboard and mouse, it needs some self-disciple to do any serious work.
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@loose I had to fill in the "no TV licence needed" declaration multiple times already even when I didn't have a TV... And if I actually buy a TV they generally don't accept the "no licence needed" part of it because "you have a TV therefore you must need a licence"
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@Luhmann I live in a block of flats, the entrance and stairwells are communal and the landlord owns rights to them, I do not.
If I did, I'd simply remove their right of access, job done.
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@loopback0 I had to in 2009 when I bought a fucking DVD player from Argos (yes, seriously, because if you have a DVD player you must have a TV) the hilarity was that the TV licence was in my then-girlfriend's name so I got all the bullshit until I called them and explained we lived together. And again in 2011 when I bought a new TV from Currys.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
if I actually buy a TV I will have to give my name and address so they will know I have a TV.
I've never had to give my name and address when buying a TV, and if the store insisted, then I'd tell them "In that case, I'm going to buy one from your competitor."
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@Arantor I didn't like 2 years ago when I bought one from Tesco.
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@loopback0 maybe it changed then.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
If I did, I'd simply remove their right of access, job done.
Because?
They send people round to check. If you don't have a TV (or it's not connected) then letting them in proves that. Keeping them out just makes it look like you're hiding something.
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@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
I'm using it to play video games and maybe Netflix via the PS3, it won't really be a TV.
Same here, I only use mine for Netflix, Prime Video, Steam games that support the controller, my Wii U and occasionally as an external monitor.
@Arantor said in TV, or monitor?:
18' by 13'
OK, that's a bit smaller than mine. Still, a 40'' monitor/TV won't hurt if you want to enjoy movies in HD.
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@loopback0 said in TV, or monitor?:
If you don't have a TV (or it's not connected) then letting them in proves that. Keeping them out just makes it look like you're hiding something.
By your logic, talking to the police without a lawyer is fine as long as you're innocent. Which is horribly bad advice. Don't ever talk to any authority that suspects you broke a law unless you absolutely have to. Everything they know about you might be used against you in ways you don't expect.
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amazon seems to have Monitors in the size and aspect ratio you want @arantor.
this one looks good. (to me, you'll obviously want to do your research.)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-LS32E590C-32-Inch-Monitor-Speaker/dp/B00TF0XTVS
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@asdf said in TV, or monitor?:
Which is horribly bad advice.
We're not talking about the Police, we're talking about the TV licensing inspectors.
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@loopback0 said in TV, or monitor?:
we're talking about the TV licensing inspectors
Same principle. I don't know how bad they are in the UK, but in Germany the general advice was not to let them into your home, since they'll use everything they can find as evidence that you use their services. If they found evidence that you own a computer, tablet, MP3 player (FM radio!) or smartphone, you were already fucked and had to pay the tax plus penalties.
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@loopback0 that's just it, if you write to them to inform them you revoke their right of access to the property, they can't check, and they've acknowledged they don't pursue those cases.
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@asdf much the same deal except the scare tactics are more obnoxious.
And I do own a smartphone, tablet, laptop etc, so by their definition I was already fucked to start with. Therefore I wasn't going to go and attract attention ;)
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@anonymous234 said in TV, or monitor?:
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one
I'm pretty sure you need a "TV licence" whether you have a TV or not.
Correct - you need the licence if you receive live broadcasts of the BBC TV channels (as per the link you included) no matter what the device.
The reality is that it's impossible before or after the fact to prove that someone watched BBC TV live.
Meanwhile, the BBC & government plan to close the loophole that currently allows you to watch non-live BBC programmes (in the UK) without a licence so it will effectively become "Watch BBC TV programmes at any time, on any device, in the UK = pay a TV licence".
Which is actually fine, IMO. In the UK you can receive a bunch of relatively decent TV channels for free, unlike in the U.S. If you want to watch the BBC then you pay the extra "subscription cost", same as you would for Sky Movies, BT Sport, or whatever.
Where it gets murky is that all the other UK TV channels don't have the government acting as their enforcer...
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@skotl said in TV, or monitor?:
Where it gets murky is that all the other UK TV channels don't have the government acting as their enforcer...
Only the BBC is funded by the TV license*, which is used not just for TV, but also for radio and the online services not run by BBC Worldwide (who have a different funding method).
*Unless the other state broadcaster (Channel 4 (yes, it is a state broadcaster)) gets a small slice, but I can't remember if that's true or not.
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@skotl said in TV, or monitor?:
If you want to watch the BBC then you pay the extra "subscription cost"
Well no - even if you only ever watched Channel 4 you're paying the TV license anyway.
I'd be more than happy to pay the TV license if it was just for the BBC though. It's not exactly expensive.