Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.
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"This is not a VM. This is not cross-compiled tools. This is native ...We've partnered with Canonical to offer this great experience, which you'll be able to download right from the Windows Store."
"We've actually taken the Linux UserMode code from Ubuntu and we've built a subsystem into the Windows kernel to expose an interface that looks to all intents and purposes like Linux to a Linux UserMode. So we've integrated Windows and the Linux UserMode code to run smoothly on Windows. We're calling this Windows Subsystem for Linux."
It's too early for an April Fools Day joke, right?
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Will 2016 finally be the year of Linux on the desktop?
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@hungrier said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
Will 2016 finally be the year of Linux on the desktop?
It will certainly be the year of the TDWTF topic about Linux on Windows.
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So, this replaces the Windows subsystem for UNIX or whatever it is that Microsoft removed a few years ago?
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Is it talk backwards day? This is Linux subsystem for Windows, no? It's not
wine
, it's...line
, I guess?
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@powerlord I'd bet megabucks that it's literally that codebase updated, plus userland apps.
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@Weng said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
plus userland apps.
if they included the necessary things to run X applications ..... by the goddess that would be glorious!
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Does it also come from sources which aren't the Windows Store?
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@accalia I wouldn't have bothered in v1. The primary audience as I see it is... Well, us. Developers. Assuming it gets any meaningful adoption, v2 would go that way.
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@Weng and i see no reason why they couldn't have done it in V1 if they made it so they could run arbitrary ELF binaries.
we'll just have to see what happens on release. they do imply they can. although they do omit where the .deb files are fetched from so maybe not so much.
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@accalia The stumbling block would be having Explorer also be an x server. Just running ELF binaries and implementing the Linux kernel APIs only needs the kernel team.
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@Joel why aren't you using an operating system that respects your freedoms?
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@boomzilla said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
It will certainly be the year of the TDWTF topic about Linux on Windows.
Also the year that @blakeyrat finally has an aneurysm.
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@ben_lubar said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
@Joel why aren't you using an operating system that
respects your freedomsforces you to have a specific set freedoms whether you want them or not?FTFRMS
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@accalia said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
X applications
And then Wayland actually takes off just to spite everyone and not work on Windows?
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@anotherusername NT was specifically designed to have various subsystems that could "emulate" other OSes. That's how OS/2 and POSIX compatibility were originally put in it.
This is just Microsoft making use of a feature NT has always has but was rarely-used. Heck, they might have even dusted off the old POSIX subsystem to get this to work, who knows.
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@Weng said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
The stumbling block would be having Explorer also be an x server.
Ugh.
If they do implement X11, I hope they do it like OS X does: a filthy foreigner who runs in his own space, looks hideous, and everybody shuns and hates.
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@Onyx said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
Is it talk backwards day? This is Linux subsystem for Windows, no? It's not
wine
, it's...line
, I guess?This pun would work better if the acronym "Wine" had the word "Windows" in it.
@blakeyrat said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
If they do implement X11, I hope they do it like OS X does: a filthy foreigner who runs in his own space, looks hideous, and everybody shuns and hates.
Well, if they make those applications look worse than on Linux, people might drop Windows altogether
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I do X11 stuff on Windows all the time.
(Granted, it's just forwarding remote applications to XMing, but it works pretty well and appears seamless.)
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@Gąska said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
This pun would work better if the acronym "Wine" had the word "Windows" in it.
Uhmmmmmmm, why wouldn't it work both ways?
Wine is not an emulator
Line is not an emulator
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Anyone can confirm whether we can install the arm-linux toolchain there?
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@Polygeekery said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
@Gąska said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
This pun would work better if the acronym "Wine" had the word "Windows" in it.
Uhmmmmmmm, why wouldn't it work both ways?
Wine is not an emulator
Line is not an emulator
I said better.
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@blakeyrat said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
@Weng said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
The stumbling block would be having Explorer also be an x server.
Ugh.
If they do implement X11, I hope they do it like OS X does: a filthy foreigner who runs in his own space, looks hideous, and everybody shuns and hates.
wont you ever break character to tell how well you trolled tdwtf for years?
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@loopback0 I've been trying to find and install it since it was announced. No dice yet, but this would fit a use case I've been trying to solve for the past couple years perfectly. Let me know if you find out how to install it, even through Windows store!
I tried downloading a redstone iso and virtualbox it, but didn't see it there.
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This could finally replace my Linux VM at work. +1
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This is just a natural consequence of the CADT model having been applied to a longstanding Ubuntu bug. Since that bug still affects me, I switched from Ubuntu to Debian about then and I've certainly been happier for that.
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@mott555 said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
it's just forwarding remote applications to XMing
It would be interesting to bring XMing up on a box running this new subsystem and find out how badly high-bandwidth applications like video and games perform with it. Does XMing even support shm?
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Re-post from Nagesh's thread:
@JBert said in Who is going to Build 2016?:
@cartman82 said in Who is going to Build 2016?:
More details.
Technically, it's like a windows equivalent of WINE. Looks and feels like cygwin/msys.
We'll see. I cant help but feel this will create an even bigger hodgge podge out of windows environment.
A quick Google search brought up this article: https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2016/03/30/run-bash-on-ubuntu-on-windows/
The article does highlight that it's beta and has the following restriction:
Third, note that Bash and Linux tools cannot interact with Windows applications and tools, and vice-versa. So you won’t be able to run Notepad from Bash, or run Ruby in Bash from PowerShell.
This means you can't use this new shell as your main shell and simply launch native Windows programs – though running Windows apps would come with problems like differences in filepaths. I wonder how well this integrates with Cygwin — I'd guess "not at all" as Cygwin is compiled as native Windows executables...
There're lots of comments below the article, you might want to skim it.
Since that post I've been thinking that most stuff I tend to run in a console might actually be available as a Linux ELF binary so it might not be as much of a problem as I initially thought. Still, if you need e.g. git you will have two copies: one for Windows (EXE) and one for Linux (ELF).
It also could mean you'd be able to run Docker without any VM overhead if they at least support enough of the kernel infrastructure for Docker's needs.
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@flabdablet said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
@mott555 said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
it's just forwarding remote applications to XMing
It would be interesting to bring XMing up on a box running this new subsystem and find out how badly high-bandwidth applications like video and games perform with it. Does XMing even support shm?
I doubt video and games would work well. I'm not sure if there's even audio. My Linux usage is generally development work, so I'll forward gedit, the file browser, and one of our Qt apps.
I've even done X11 forwarding over the Internet before and it works well enough, most of the time. Sometimes keystrokes or mouse clicks hang for a few seconds so I definitely wouldn't want to try gaming that way.
I have no idea what shm is. Since we're talking Linux, it's probably some stupid CLI thing that's useless without piping it into twelve other CLI things, and downgrades your kernel while deleting /home if you accidentally use a
-l
switch instead of an-L
switch.
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@mott555 said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
I have no idea what shm is
It's an X extension that allows the client to pass hefty chunks of data to the X server using shared memory rather than squeezing it all down a pipe or network link.
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@mott555 said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
shm
i'm not sure what @flabdablet means by
shm
but whenever i encounter that in a linux context it almost always refers to/dev/shm
which is basically a dynamically expanding/contracting ramdrive (usually limited to a maximum size 50% of total RAM)which.... yeah windows can totally support that in some way if they want to i guess?
EDIT: oh. yep. he's talking about the xserver extension that can use /dev/shm to pass data to the xserver.... i thought that only worked to a local X server?
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@accalia said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
which.... yeah windows can totally support that in some way if they want to i guess?
I've occasionally used ImDisk to create a RAMdisk to store Node.js projects during development.
npm install
and unit tests run probably a hundred times faster compared to having them on my rusty old hard drive, and my PC has 16 GB RAM so creating a 1 - 2 GB RAMdisk is a good way to use some of that.
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@accalia said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
i thought that only worked to a local X server?
How is XMing running on the same box as the Linux shim not a local X server?
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@flabdablet
XMing is an X Server for Windows.
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Quite so. And if it's running on the same box as a bunch of Ubuntu userland stuff, it would be nice if it could be exposed as a local X server.
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@hungrier said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
Will 2016 finally be the year of Linux on the desktop?
It'll be the year of Linux utilities on the Windows desktop.
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@JBert said in Windows Subsystem for Linux... Not an April Fools Day joke, even.:
It also could mean you'd be able to run Docker without any VM overhead if they at least support enough of the kernel infrastructure for Docker's needs.
I would imagine they would, given the support for Windows Containers in Server 2016. These efforts are all playing into each other.