π₯ Terrorists: we are being pressured by iPhones into creating Apple backdoor
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They'll probably do it anyways, but I guess this is apple's way of dragging their feet.
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They'll probably do it anyways
i hope they don't. while i personally refuse to buy apple products because of their business practices overseas* they have the trust of a large customer base, to implement such a back door in their flagship product would seriously undermine that trust and be "A Bad Thingβ’" for sales.
and if apple falls, then that will leave Google in a mostly unchallenged monopoly for the mobile market, and while i'm in the Google camp i fear that the virtual monopoly that would cause would be bad for all consumers...
* as well as the apple tax that causes their products to be between 2x and 5x as expensive as equivalent hardware from their competitors
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as well as the apple tax that causes their products to be between 2x and 5x as expensive as
equivalenthardwarefromtheir competitors released 2/3 years previous
FTFY
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If they're being forced to by the government, then they probably don't have a choiceβ¦
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choice or not it will undermine trust in the platform.
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Presumes of course that they are actually able to retroactively unencrypt the phone they're on about (5c gets mentioned a lot, the following stuff is for IOS 8 up I believe..)
After reading Apple's iOS Security Guide white paper, it is doubtful that Apple can write any kind of software to load onto the device to permit any of those options. This is because once the device is locked, it will not install any updates to the operating system. The boot firmware is already installed and automatically runs when the device is turned on. Updating the operating system requires the device password. These functions are cryptographically secured. See the section "Keybags," subsection "Escrow Keybag" in the paper. The auto-erase and time delay features are enforced by the Secure Enclave in hardware, and cannot be circumvented.
More indepth stuff on http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=8756397&cid=51524693
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as well as the apple tax that causes their products to be between 2x and 5x as expensive as equivalent hardware from their competitors
Yeah...that's not true. If you compare equivalent products, they are pretty price competitive. Apple just doesn't have a product line that competes on the cheap end of things.
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If you compare equivalent products, they are pretty price competitive.
really?okay. let's look at current generation Macbook pro shall we?
Buy MacBook Pro
Get a new MacBook Pro from only $133.25 per month. Select a model or customise your own. Buy now at apple.com.
Key specs:
$1300
i5 2.7GHz
8GB RAM
128GB SSD
10 hours battery
Intel Iris 6100
Screen resolution not mentioned anywhere on Apple's store. assuming 1920x1080 (1080p)now let's look at some competitors stuff
Key Stats:
$760
i5 2.2GHz
8GB RAM
256 GB SSD
10 hours battery
Intel HD 5500
Full HD (1920x1080) resolutionMacbook beats it on CPU and graphics processor, but not by a margin that the average person will notice.
still let's keep looking shall we?
let's look at what i can get for that 1300$ price point, no?
hmm this looks like it will fit the bill...
ASUS ZenBook UX303UB
Key stats:
1250$
I7 2.5GHz
12GB RAM
512GB SSD
Nvidea Geforce GT 940m
QHD+ screen resolution (3200x1800)looks like that one beats all the metrics that i can find for the macbook, substantially too in most of the categories
"competitive".... right... i could match most specs on a laptop roughly half the cost in less than five minutes, and i guarantee that further searching would have gotten a much better match at the same price point. and a further five minutes to find a laptop at a similar price point that beats the pants off the listed specs
oh and as a bonus, i can do the same thing to the 15" macbook.
macbook $2500+PC $1450
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Wow, Apple doing something I agree with? Has hell frozen over?
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now let's look at some competitors stuff
Asus Zenbook UX305LA 13.3
That competes in an entirely different market segment...if you want to compare that one to something, you would be looking more at the Macbook Air. That Asus laptop is almost a direct clone of it. But the air will get you 12 hours of battery life, better build quality and such for $1,000-$1,200.
"competitive".... right... i could match most specs on a laptop roughly half the cost in less than five minutes
But nowhere near the same build quality either. Not even close. But sure, let's cherry pick one market segment. Look at the dustbin MacPro. The guys who build Hackintoshes have to spend more to build them. Of course, you can build a Hackintosh that actually looks better than a dustbin, but it will also take up more space and make more noise. Life is full of compromises.
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Isn't apple working themselves into a corner here? As I remember, telling the judge 'We can not' after you've already told him 'We will not' won't get much sympathy, even if it's true.
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Wow, Apple doing something I agree with? Has hell frozen over?
"...and rest assured, we will never add another backdoor... uh, I mean, any backdoor..."
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Screen resolution not mentioned anywhere on Apple's store. assuming 1920x1080 (1080p)
Oh, and you were way the hell off on resolution.
2560x1600
You could get a lot closer to 1080 by going down to the $1,100 model.
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Oh, and you were way the hell off on resolution.
nice to know. where'd you get that number because it sure as fxx is not in the apple store.
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If you click on Features you can read a bunch of text including
A spectacular 2560-by-1600 resolution on the 13βinch MacBook Pro and an equally impressive 2880-by-1800 resolution on the 15βinch MacBook Pro let you see more of your high-resolution images with pixel-for-pixel accuracy.
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That competes in an entirely different market segment...
really now? because to me, as a person buying this kit it looks like the same flipping market segment to me. so please, explain to me how it's a different market segment.
But nowhere near the same build quality either.
i personally have owned several ASUS laptops and while i will happily grant you that the plastic case is not nearly as sexy as the magnesium case of the macbook pro the build quality is as good as apple. In fact my original ASUS is still going strong with no detectable damage to the case now 7.5 years after purchase.The guys who build Hackintoshes have to spend more to build them.
cite your sources please. because as far as I can see that's a load of hogwash, but i'll admit i don't know everything so please, cite your sources so i may be enlightened.
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If you click on Features you can read a bunch of text including
A spectacular 2560-by-1600 resolution on the 13βinch MacBook Pro and an equally impressive 2880-by-1800 resolution on the 15βinch MacBook Pro let you see more of your high-resolution images with pixel-for-pixel accuracy.
nice of them to bury that away from the purchase page so that i wouldn't know to look for QHD monitors when shopping for comparable kit.
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I guess it's time to create Petition for those in U.S., how about a law to demand that in no case government should request any form of backdoor that can undermine security?
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As I remember, telling the judge 'We can not' after you've already told him 'We will not' won't get much sympathy, even if it's true.
Is there a judge involved at this point? I quickly skimmed the letter and it only seemed to mention the FBI.
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Guess not then, I didn't read it at all. I suspect the same principle applies to the FBI though.
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Is there a judge involved at this point?
A judge in California on Tuesday ordered Apple to help the F.B.I. unlock an iPhone used by one of the attackers in the assault in San Bernardino that killed 14 people in December.
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The ruling handed the F.B.I. a potentially important victory in its long-running battle with Apple and other Silicon Valley companies over the governmentβs ability to get access to encrypted data in investigations. Apple has maintained that requiring it to provide the βkeysβ to its technology would compromise the security of the information of hundreds of millions of users. blah blah blah...The letter seems to be addressing future instances of stuff mentioned in the second para there. Slippery-slope/thin end of the wedge sorta thing.
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their business practices overseas
giving tens-to-hundreds of thousands of people high-paying jobs that's not farm work?
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Clearly you haven't priced any recent Samsung flagship phones.
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... seriously, though. This is a good movie, but the FUCKING AUDACITY of Apple suddenly saying, "ok, NOW we'll respect your rights". What hypocritical asswads. Despite agreeing with this letter, it almost makes me hate them even more.
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The logical endgame over this pissing contest over encryption, is for many nations like Canada, Switzerland, New Zealand, etc. to enshrine into law the ability to use encryption. Nations like the US may ban it, and then what? Apple and various others will simply sell their devices from the nations that allow them, and people who want them will simply import them.
E.G. as with the criminals with guns argument, the only people they will stop by banning it, will be the law abiding people anyway. (not that I am endorsing that point of view, I am just reflecting the argument).
Fucking idiots.
Encryption is a software level thing that is freely available on the internet. It is TRIVIAL in this day and age for people to encrypt their own stuff using code freely available everywhere. The better way to approach the problem is just traditional surveillance.
Additionally, unlocking a phone after-the-fact, as in the case highlighted here, DOESN'T SAVE ANYONE. It simply may answer some questions. Good surveillance before a crime is actually committed, though, could actually prevent the crime, and it doesn't matter if their devices are encrypted or not. Hell, if they are watching closely enough, they can simply get the passcodes anyway by simply watching the suspected criminal using their devices. Win-win.
And I'm sorry, but the people who owned the device in question, who committed the acts of terrorism, were fairly recent immigrants from areas of the world where that sort of behavior is fairly common. Why the shit were they NOT being watched? We have all this money to piss away on airport naked scanner "security" bullshit that MISSES NINETY-FIVE PERCENT ( seriously ) of the shit they test it with, but we don't have the resources to watch recent immigrants from areas of the world known to produce terrorists? Seriously? o_O
We are too stupid to exist if this keeps going on. We harass our own people, and let the criminals and potential criminals walk free. This invasion into personal liberty and privacy by various nations, because terrorism, NEEDS to stop. =_=
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White House says FBI wants access to one iPhone, not blanket backdoor from Apple | AppleInsider
The White House has taken issue with Apple's suggestion that creating a backdoor to iOS would threaten the security of all its customers, instead arguing that the issue applies to just one iPhone in question.
FBI whinges that they were only asking for access into a single phone; ignore that Tim Cook already preemptively replied to that in his original press release.
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Hardware specs are only one part of the difference. The OS needs to be factored in, the free OS upgrades, and support.
I've had exactly 0 problems with my MacBook, 1 with my Mini that support quickly worked through. That Mini is 4 years old and been through as many OS upgrades without any degradation in performance.
If it was only about hardware specs I wouldn't spend the extra money.
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Why the shit were they NOT being watched?
Because that's "Islamophobia", a BS made-up word intended to stop rational discussion.
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In that case Apple can just reply "they're unable to do that" as response to the FBI. Their own hackers should be more capable for such job.
Case closed.
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@Vaire said:
Why the shit were they NOT being watched?
Because that's "Islamophobia", a BS made-up word intended to stop rational discussion.
No, Islamophobia is a certain presidential candidate saying we should prevent all Muslims from entering the country.
Watching people who are potential terrorists is common sense (although many would argue it's against their privacy rights...)
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No, Islamophobia is a certain presidential candidate saying we should prevent all Muslims from entering the country.
Clearly you haven't been paying attention to how that word is actually used.
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Don't care how idiots use the word. Islamophobia is a thing, and people (you'd call them SJWs, I'm sure) who use the term wrong are just as bad as those who think it doesn't exist...
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nice of them to bury that away from the purchase page so that i wouldn't know to look for QHD monitors when shopping for comparable kit.
You're right! All those pesky Apple people don't even know how to do marketing properly!
I'm waiting for another comparison, though. But I hope you'll be able to prove not that it's 1,5x more expensive but, as you said:
between 2x and 5x
Especially those 5x cases.
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The reg throw their opinion into the ring
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Especially those 5x cases.
i'll admit, that was hyperbole on my part, the real split is 1.5x to 2x from what i can see.
I'm still waiting to hear back from @Polygeekery as to why my first comparison is bunk because of "different market segments" I don't get that in the slightest and i'm going to need to have that explained to me if i'm to make another pass at the price comparison that takes into consideration these mythical "different market segments"
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Normal laptops are in the 'get shit done' market segment, while Macbooks are in the 'hipster bellend' market segment ;)
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The reg throw their opinion into the ring
From what they say, it seems that this backdoor would only work with <iP5s? Cook failed to mention this fact, although this doesn't change much.
Normal laptops are in the 'get shit done' market segment, while Macbooks are in the 'hipster bellend' market segment
Look at you, all smart and funny.
i'll admit, that was hyperbole on my part, the real split is 1.5x to 2x from what i can see.
That's what I was getting at. I understand that you might not like Apple hardware but your shtick where you bash Apple for stuff that's not real pisses me off.
I'm still waiting to hear back from @Polygeekery as to why my first comparison is bunk because of "different market segments" I don't get that in the slightest and i'm going to need to have that explained to me if i'm to make another pass at the price comparison that takes into consideration these mythical "different market segments"
Fair enough.
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your shtick where you bash Apple for stuff that's not real pisses me off.
accalia:
you mean where i call them out on their unecessarily high prices? cause that's truth and i'll not feel bad for saying so.
regardless of the accuracy or hyperbolic status of the "2x to 5x as expensive" comment, i made a good faith effort to compare two different Macbook to their PC equivalents. In both cases i was able to find equivalent specs at roughly half the macbook price point, and a PC that beat the pants off the macbook spec wise at the macbook's pricepoint.
If you have a comparison in any of the apple product line that goes the other way I'd love to hear it. If you have any reason that my comparison was so completely off base so as to be invalid, as @polygeekery has claimed but not explained, i would love to hear it.
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you mean where i call them out on their unecessarily high prices? cause that's truth and i'll not feel bad for saying so.
Nope, I mean when you say "2x to 5x". It's not that I'm triggered whenever you say something bad about Apple. It's such a huge exaggeration that pisses me off.
i made a good faith effort to compare two different Macbook to their PC equivalents. In both cases i was able to find equivalent specs at roughly half the macbook price point, and a PC that beat the pants off the macbook spec wise at the macbook's pricepoint.
Yes you did. I do appreciate that.
If you have a comparison in any of the apple product line that goes the other way I'd love to hear it. If you have any reason that my comparison was so completely off base so as to be invalid, as @polygeekery has claimed but not explained, i would love to hear it.
Well, I'm not really all that interested in changing your mind about Apple products. Of course, they are much more expensive than other manufacturers' and you get locked in. Those are the facts. I don't have a problem with that. I also don't have a problem with the fact that you hate it that provides a "shallow" SD card readers. I don't have the problem that you hate the lock-in. Or that you hate their branding. Or whatever.
As I said before, it's the exaggerations that grind my gear
I don't care enough to compare their computers, though. One thing is it would be hard for me, since I've never owned one. But there are a few things that I think might be important when comparing them, apart from the hardware inside:
a) Apple is supposed to achieve better performance with the supported hardware because of the control they have. I don't know if that's true, though.
b) Along with an Apple computer you get OS X.
c) Their hardware is supposedly of very high quality whichever model you choose.
d) The choice is limited, so it takes less time and brain power consumed to choose a product. Seriously, it's hard for some people to choose a computer.
e) Perfect integration with other iDevices.You might not care about those, but for some (apart from a), should it not be true) could be a strong selling point.
Of course, those points (apart from a), maybe) are completely besides your point about the price per hardware. Just something to keep in mind when you think about what @Polygeekery might have meant when he was talking about the computers you chose being in different segments.
ETA
Also, I'm simply tired of people without basic knowledge about what they're talking about, walking around and saying how Apple products are overpriced and shit. That's because it's a very popular position here in Poland where Apple's products are really expensive, so they want to bash them though they don't know shit about the topic, have never tried it, have never even used it.
</rant>
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Nope, I mean when you say "2x to 5x".
2x is accurate. or at least on the high end of the scale. See my comparison effort.
a) Apple is supposed to achieve better performance with the supported hardware because of the control they have.
I consider this snake oil. I have seen no attempts to empirically measure this in anything approaching an unbiased manner.No offense, but if anyone makes a claim like that i want to see verifiable numbers to back it up, and i don't see that.
b) Along with an Apple computer you get OS X.
how is OSX functionally different than Windows 10?no, i'm serious here. What can OSX do that Windows 10 can't? what can it do significantly better than Windows 10?
Until i see a measurable difference her it's all
thinking from where i stand. People have told me OSX is better for years now, but no one has ever attempted to show me whyTheir hardware is supposedly of very high quality whichever model you choose.
so's the hardware that i picked out.d) The choice is limited, so it takes less time and brain power consumed to choose a product.
this one i'll grant you. But that does not in and of itself justify the extreme difference in price.e) Perfect integration with other iDevices.
I'll admit i have been out of the walled garden for some time now, but when i last was inside it they had a pretty solid integration with windows through itunes and that weird little app that kept outlook insync with the IOS mail app....Has that changes substantially for the worse?
I'm simply tired of people without basic knowledge about what they're talking about, walking around and saying how Apple products are overpriced and shit.
I consider myself reasonably knowledgeable about the situation and feel entirely justified in calling Apple Products overpriced, But I'm happy to be shown wrong if you have any counterexamples to my points.One thing i won't call Apple Products is shit. You'll note that throughout this entire thread i have made reference to Apple in a bad light in exactly two ways, to wit:
- Their overseas business practices, which you can happily verify for yourself.
- Their price
Apple makes fantastic products with nigh unparalleled build quality that they sell for an artificially inflated price because "it is apple"
it's similar to Coach handbags. A Coach brand handbag sells for 300+$ because it's coach, but an identical handbag made at the same factory in the same year, but with a different brand applied to it sells for 75-125$
The price is high because of the brand name applied to it.
However, as always, please let me know if you have a counter example that shows i am in error on any of my points.
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2x is accurate. or at least on the high end of the scale. See my comparison effort.
Yeah, I don't want to make this about "but you said!" because I know that you really didn't mean exactly what you said.
No offense, but if anyone makes a claim like that i want to see verifiable numbers to back it up, and i don't see that.
You're probably right.
Has that changes substantially for the worse?
Well, what I meant was awesome integration of text messages into the iMessage app, AirDrop, stuff like that.
There's a Cydia app called Remote Messages that tries to achieve that but it fails, sadly. I mean, it's good. Just not that good.
so's the hardware that i picked out.
Sure.
But you missed the part where I say "whichever model you choose". It's not unheard of for other manufacturers to release devices of lower quality than expected or than people are accustomed to. It might not be the case with ASUS, sure but none other company has such solid "we won't let you down" branding.
this one i'll grant you. But that does not in and of itself justify the extreme difference in price.
Sure. Still is a great selling point.
how is OSX functionally different than Windows 10?
no, i'm serious here. What can OSX do that Windows 10 can't? what can it do significantly better than Windows 10?
Until i see a measurable difference her it's all
thinking from where i stand. People have told me OSX is better for years now, but no one has ever attempted to show me whyI have no idea, I've never used it. Although I do believe that Windows 8 through 10 are a bit harder to use because Microsoft is moving control panel to the settings metro app and it's insanely hard to find what you are looking for compared to Windows 7 and below. But that's beside the point.
I consider myself reasonably knowledgeable about the situation and feel entirely justified in calling Apple Products overpriced, But I'm happy to be shown wrong if you have any counterexamples to my points.
Sorry if you took that part personally. I didn't really have you in mind when writing this part, just the "people" from the second part of the paragraph. I'm sick and I'm making a great job of making my posts chaotic.
they sell for an artificially inflated price because "it is apple"
Agreed. On the other hand, this "it's Apple" comes from really great branding and its "ease-of-use", if I may call it. I don't mean the ease-of-use of iOS or OS X but the ease-of-use of their brand. It's good, it's clear and so it's easy. So people are prepared to pay more for it.
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Although I do believe that Windows 8 through 10 are a bit harder to use because Microsoft is moving control panel to the settings metro app and it's insanely hard to find what you are looking for compared to Windows 7 and below.
Mostly because the people that complain the loudest basically goIt's all different and I don't like it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!
instead of, y'know, actually using it.
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@kt_ said:
Although I do believe that Windows 8 through 10 are a bit harder to use because Microsoft is moving control panel to the settings metro app and it's insanely hard to find what you are looking for compared to Windows 7 and below.
Mostly because the people that complain the loudest basically goIt's all different and I don't like it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!
instead of, y'know, actually using it.
I've used it and having to look in TWO control panels to find what you're looking for is user-unfriendly.
Sure, you have a (pretty good, I admit) system-wide search in Win10, but even that can send you the wrong way.
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I've used it and having to look in TWO control panels to find what you're looking for is user-unfriendly.
I'll agree there; it should be all one or the other. But I do find most complaints are simply because there's this whole "MetroModern UIUWP is teh evilz lol" attitute spread mostly by people who hate change. It's the same sort of person that complains that the far more accurate 'Programs and Features' is more confusing than 'Add/Remove Programs'.
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instead of, y'know, actually using it.
Using what? Don't think about yourself, me or @accalia. Think about your parents. Or if you're parents don't get lost in this maze, thing about my parents. They can't figure it out. Because it's not the stuff that it's different that makes it hard. It's that it's all over the place. Their functionalities differ in some places, in some places they are duplicated. It's hard for technical people to find anything in this mess without going through a steep learning curve.
Compared to:
or:
or:
or
or...
Wait! No!
Phew! I almost also pasted the KDE settings panel!
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I know that you really didn't mean exactly what you said.
Metaphor is like that.Well, what I meant was awesome integration of text messages into the iMessage app, AirDrop, stuff like that.
ah.hmm... okay there is that, but i'll point out that there are alternatives for all of that in the windows world as well. maybe not as convenient, but every bit as functional.
But you missed the part where I say "whichever model you choose". It's not unheard of for other manufacturers to release devices of lower quality than expected or than people are accustomed to. It might not be the case with ASUS, sure but none other company has such solid "we won't let you down" branding.
this is true, you have to be more careful with PCs than you do with Apple, but given that you can easily save 1k on a high end laptop compared to a high end macbook, the extra effort is worth it.I have no idea, I've never used it. Although I do believe that Windows 8 through 10 are a bit harder to use because Microsoft is moving control panel to the settings metro app and it's insanely hard to find what you are looking for compared to Windows 7 and below.
While it is true that windows 10 does have some failings with that dual settings app stuff (that's a genuine gripe for me) The average user should not be in either control panel for their day to day work, so that does rather blunt the failing (it's still there though).Sorry if you took that part personally.
i didn't take it that personally, no fear.
you'll know if i take it personally.
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Think about your parents
My mum's properly computer literate, and my dad's a software engineer
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My mum's properly computer literate, and my dad's a software engineer
Good thing I added that part, then:
Or if you're parents don't get lost in this maze, thing about my parents. They can't figure it out.
(so many :sm before the correct "smile"
thinks are more pertinent to the civilized discussion)
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how is OSX functionally different than Windows 10?
no, i'm serious here. What can OSX do that Windows 10 can't? what can it do significantly better than Windows 10?
Until i see a measurable difference her it's all
thinking from where i stand. People have told me OSX is better for years now, but no one has ever attempted to show me why
I can't point to studies or benchmarks but my experience has been a better with OS X than Windows. Granted Windows is getting better in some ways, particularly stability.Not that these things may matter to everyone but I happen to like and use the applications that come on OS X. Photos, Notes, Reminders, Mail, Calendar, etc. All of which interface with iCloud and give me access through iDevices and a web portal. iMessage has been improved to handle all text messages from my phone. I no longer have to stop my work to respond to a message. I've purchased new printers and OS X installed when I attempted to print - no setup was necessary. etc. etc. etc.
Let me put it this way:
how is Windows functionally different than Linux?
no, i'm serious here. What can Windows do that Linux can't? what can it do significantly better than Linux?
Until i see a measurable difference her it's all
thinking from where i stand. People have told me Windows is better for years now, but no one has ever attempted to show me why
Confused as to WTF is happening with Apple, the FBI and a killer's iPhone? Let's fix that
