Why is Everybody so clueless on the importance of Desktop Search to the Masses?
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@SociopathSwamp said:
<font color="#ff0000">The Email export doesn't matter to me either.</font> Mine are all up to date. I only do 5 or 10 a week max. So manual is OK. That email export info will be of use for those with lots of email and wanting to use the search.
YOU. ARE. AN OBNOXIOUS. LIAR.
http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/7593/148365.aspx#148365
@SociopathSwamp said:
How about some of you getting off you butts and Help us Swampies get out emails out to text without forwarding then cuting and pasting then alt/tab and "z" at Prompt #2. Or is it mostly AIR here. No action. <font color="#ff0000">All the hours wasted by me. doing my emails was time that could have been better spent.</font>
YOU. ARE. WASTING. EVERYONE'S. TIME.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
in any showdown your side loses. The other Destkop Search just don't hold a candle to Swamp Search.
Yup, SSDS "wins" in every "showdown", except the one showdown that matters: <font size="5">SSDS HAS NO USERS - NOT THE MASSES, NOT CORPORATIONS, NOT LIBRARIES, NOT GEEKS, NOBODY.</font>
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@SpectateSwamp said:
The Email export doesn't matter to me either.
You are the only person who makes a habit of exporting emails to text and then building a big text file, you are the person who wanted this functionality.
@SpectateSwamp said:
That email export info will be of use for those with lots of email and wanting to use the search.
There is you and you alone who wants to export emails to text and then search them, the rest of us are happy to keep emails as emails and use either our email client or our choice of desktop search to find them again.
@SpectateSwamp said:
in any showdown your side loses.
Name a showdown SSDS has won, you refused all of ours and then made a big thing about file size despite the fact even you do not have very large files and had to deliberately make them for some of the videos.
@SpectateSwamp said:
The other Destkop Search just don't hold a candle to Swamp Search.
SDS isn't even a desktop search application - you can't even compare them.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Why aren't there any other search experts here.
They left when you showed a phenomenal lack of knowledge on the topic of search algorithms and indexing strategies.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Seems like from the video counts there is only the handful of us following this topic.
I'm guessing the rest have a life and a grip on reality - god knows why the rest of us keep coming back.
@SpectateSwamp said:
None of you use search to the degree that I do.
We tend to organise our files systems, search is an extra tool - not a primary way of life.
@SpectateSwamp said:
How easy it is to search source. I've done it.
We all have, however some of us can search more than one file... You never did respond to my subversion challenge did you?
@SpectateSwamp said:
I have heard little genuine discussion from anybody that depends and uses GDS, YDS, MDS or any of the other DS to the degree that I do this one. Learn this program and forget everything else. The masses can understand that.
No users of WDS, GDS, Copernic have regularly rebutted your claims here - you just pick and choose what you respond to and how you answer. This program is a tool that suits you, it cannot replace many of the other tools people use or rely on. It can't even work without certain other tools being present anyway. You are happy to live in a world that consists of a handful of text files - ignoring file systems and directory structures. You choose to store source code in a single file and fail to comprehend what a project means or even the concept of a zip file. For you SSDS is the way you work, and that is all. The rest of the world is happy to use explorer, gds / wds / whatever, media player, photo gallery etc to do their day to day stuff because these things work. Work easy and are discoverable - no end user wants to waste time learning what rand or randa do when media player will shuffle at the click of a button.
So far you have asked for challenges and then not bothered to respond, yuo have claimed to go open source and then not been arsed to put the minimal effort required into even setting that up. You refuse to answer difficult question, frequently wander off the plot and start spouting nonsense that really is better suited to being ignored on video editing forums.
Get back to the point or stop bothering us.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
The other Destkop Search just don't hold a candle to Swamp Search.
You, sir, are a cad and a bounder. An arse of the highest order, with nary a speckle of wit adorning that which you so laughably assert to be a brain.
I challenge you to find ONE person, other than yourself, who has at any time, anywhere, said anything positive about SSDS. ANYTHING, anything at all, ever.
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@rc_pinchey said:
@SpectateSwamp said:
The other Destkop Search just don't hold a candle to Swamp Search.
You, sir, are a cad and a bounder. An arse of the highest order, with nary a speckle of wit adorning that which you so laughably assert to be a brain.
I challenge you to find ONE person, other than yourself, who has at any time, anywhere, said anything positive about SSDS. ANYTHING, anything at all, ever.
Uh, oh. According to Word, the Flesch-Kinkaid readability grade level of that post is 7.5, which is dangerously close to Swamp's education cutoff of Grade 9. You are in danger of losing him.
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@rc_pinchey said:
I challenge you to find ONE person, other than yourself, who has at any time, anywhere, said anything positive about SSDS. ANYTHING, anything at all, ever.
I hate to ruin a perfectly fine conversation here, but I think it's wonderful that an Ordinary (usingthewordratherliberallyhere) Person like mr. Swamp has taken time to develop a tool to solve a problem they are having. A lot of people complain about their problems; it's always refreshing to see that someone does something about it. Great inventions and works of art are made when people scratch the proverbial itch. A positive thing, in my opinion.
That said (oh yes indeed it has now been said and hopefully forgotten as a mere footnote in the whole debate!), what helps one will sure as heck not help everyone else: the program is a whole lot of unusable, badly written rubbish for all other users. All we can possibly take from it is further inspiration. (For example, it'd be cool if tracker-search-tool would show random thumbnails or short clips from a video clip when you hover mouse over the thumbnail, with tiny little crossfades - would certainly make identifying the clips easier. Probably not practical to implement just yet, but hey, everything that increases "ooh factor" could be considered...) Mr. Swamp should just let the thing lie and let the History take its course, and start listening to reason.
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@CodeSimian said:
Yup, SSDS "wins" in every "showdown", except the one showdown that matters: <font size="5">SSDS HAS NO USERS - NOT THE MASSES, NOT CORPORATIONS, NOT LIBRARIES, NOT GEEKS, NOBODY.</font>
Oh yes, it has. The retards.
(Or at least one retard, I tend to generalize)
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Waiting for a ShowDown
I can see it now. In front of a divided audience. Techies and non-techies. The presenters "Search Experts" Developers and long time search users. Swamp data would be moving from computer to computer. Real projects burned and given to the crowd. Data shared. Knowledge shared. Desktop Search isn't that deep if a below average person can write one. Knowledge is power and the masses will know everything they need to know about Desktop Search, after this showdown.
Anybody here a WWF promoter?
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@SpectateSwamp said:
I can see it now. In front of a divided audience. Techies and non-techies. The presenters "Search Experts" Developers and long time search users. Swamp data would be moving from computer to computer. Real projects burned and given to the crowd. Data shared. Knowledge shared. Desktop Search isn't that deep if a below average person can write one. Knowledge is power and the masses will know everything they need to know about Desktop Search, after this showdown.
Anybody here a WWF promoter?
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Fund_for_Nature]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Fund_for_Nature[/url]
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Desktop Search isn't that deep if a below average person can write one.
Hahaha how ironic. I'm sure you think that the folks of Google or Microsoft or Copernic are below average, since you are the expert.
Alternatively, you might admit that you are below average and actually wrote a Desktop Search, which isn't true, you wrote a slow Notepad replacement.
Either way: extremely ironic sentence! Gratz!
Btw I shouldn't have to mention that your post falls in the following category:
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ClueLess to the Fact: People can compute without a computer
With this Swamp search and by keeping large text files, for your emails and net stuff. People can compute without a computer. A couple DVD's and a local Library. DVD's are cheap. It could be done!
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@SpectateSwamp said:
I can see it now. In front of a divided audience. Techies and non-techies. The presenters "Search Experts" Developers and long time search users. Swamp data would be moving from computer to computer. Real projects burned and given to the crowd. Data shared. Knowledge shared. Desktop Search isn't that deep if a below average person can write one. Knowledge is power and the masses will know everything they need to know about Desktop Search, after this showdown.
Anybody here a WWF promoter?
THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE YOU RETARD.
What on earth are you babbling about? How would a non-techie be expected to understand the peculiar syntax, how would any user go about getting support? I'm guessing you aren't paying attention to your sourceforge project anymore given your previous remarks so why keep it - the fact it is there means people expect submitted bugs to be looked at etc.
Could you please explain what 'real projects burned and given to the crowd' actually means? What does it have to do with the whole concept of searching?
Also - stop going on about a showdown. Every time one is offered you either refuse or ignore it, why should we expect this 'showdown' to be any different?
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@SpectateSwamp said:
With this Swamp search and by keeping large text files, for your emails and net stuff. People can compute without a computer. A couple DVD's and a local Library. DVD's are cheap. It could be done!
But most people do not want to keep everything in one or two large text files - get used to this as it isn't going to change. DVDs may be cheap, places that allow anyone to wander in off the street, shove a dvd into a pc and run their own executables however are not a common occurrence.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Desktop Search isn't that deep if a below average person can write one.
A below average person apparently can't write one. Your program doesn't search a desktop. Do you understand me? YOUR PROGRAM DOESN'T SEARCH A DESKTOP! It searches a file. This is decidedly not the same thing.
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@spenk said:
@SpectateSwamp said:
With this Swamp search and by keeping large text files, for your emails and net stuff. People can compute without a computer. A couple DVD's and a local Library. DVD's are cheap. It could be done!
But most people do not want to keep everything in one or two large text files - get used to this as it isn't going to change. DVDs may be cheap, places that allow anyone to wander in off the street, shove a dvd into a pc and run their own executables however are not a common occurrence.
Not to mention that you have to burn the DVDs somehow. I've not been to a library that will burn DVDs for me.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Real projects burned and given to the crowd.
Nobody understands what this means.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Knowledge shared.
But you don't have any.
@SpectateSwamp said:
a below average person
Truer words were never spoken.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Knowledge is power
You still don't have any.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Anybody here a WWF promoter?
What does wrestling have to do with computers, desktop search, and the masses?
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@CodeSimian said:
What does wrestling have to do with computers, desktop search, and the masses?
I'm not much into wrestling, but I think the point is that wrestlers often have a great mass. So wrestling is to the ones with mass, the so-called "masses".
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Anybody here a WWF promoter?
Look, this wouldn't be particularly exciting television. Creating art of any kind, programming included, makes for dull watching. Reality/contest TV show about writing desktop search would be just as exciting as making a reality/contest TV show about writers.
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Windows Desktop Search
Not to derail the conversation (as if...), but I was absolutely stunned at the brilliance of WDS this morning. I've got a Tablet PC that I've used regularly over the past year for taking meeting notes, etc. I installed WDS on it a while back, but had never really used it. So I fired it up this morning and tried searching my archive of documents. I've got about 130 Word docs, 15-20 Excel files and some random other items.
First, every search I tried completed in about 0.1 seconds (the UI actually tells you this, and the results are visible faster than you can blink...). Not only does it list each matching file, it also shows a preview. You can filter by different file types, and you can also modify the indexer to specify by file type what kind of information to index - properties vs content, for example. Because of the slow rate of change, indexing has no impact on performance - in fact, it explicitly only does indexing during "idle" time, and there are only a couple of items at any given time that need to be indexed so it finishes quickly.
Now here's the really brilliant part. I use OneNote quite a bit, and WDS even searched within my hand-written notes to find matches. Is that f'ing brilliant, or what? It even gives a "confidence" score of how accurate the match is.
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This is what Desktop Dearch is all about, isn't it? Just that SSDS can't do that doesn't mean that real Desktop Search software can't, either.
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@derula said:
This is what Desktop Dearch is all about, isn't it? Just that SSDS can't do that doesn't mean that real Desktop Search software can't, either.
Well, I expected it to be able to search in Word docs and stuff. But OneNote?
For the uninitiated, OneNote basically works like a binder or notebook. You have different tabs and you can add pages. On each page you can write longhand, draw pictures, etc. It has some to-text capability, but I've never been impressed with it. You can use it on standard PCs, but it really shines on a Tablet.
I should try it out with the "inking" capability in Word.
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@GalacticCowboy said:
Well, I expected it to be able to search in Word docs and stuff. But OneNote?
OneNote is Microsoft software, so, why the hell not? If OneNote wasn't Microsoft software, okay, then I'ld be surprised.
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@GalacticCowboy said:
For the uninitiated, OneNote basically works like a binder or notebook. You have different tabs and you can add pages. On each page you can write longhand, draw pictures, etc. It has some to-text capability, but I've never been impressed with it. You can use it on standard PCs, but it really shines on a Tablet.
If I'm not mistaken, EverNote is pretty similar to OneNote. Here's a comparison from a OneNote user:
http://manage-this.com/evernote-vs-onenote/
(Note: I have no connection with this product. I just happen to know a few people who use it at work, and I'm interested in anything that can improve on Swampie's "keep-everything-in-text-file" paradigm.)
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@GalacticCowboy said:
For the uninitiated, OneNote basically works like a binder or notebook. You have different tabs and you can add pages. On each page you can write longhand, draw pictures, etc. It has some to-text capability, but I've never been impressed with it. You can use it on standard PCs, but it really shines on a Tablet.
Right, so it must be stored in a mythical unicorn format that no other program could ever read!
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Right, so [OneNote's data] must be stored in a mythical unicorn format that no other program could ever read!
To be fair, Swampie almost has a good point about proprietary formats and vendor lock-in. Too bad in his case, the cure is far worse than the disease.
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@CodeSimian said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Right, so [OneNote's data] must be stored in a mythical unicorn format that no other program could ever read!
To be fair, Swampie almost has a good point about proprietary formats and vendor lock-in. Too bad in his case, the cure is far worse than the disease.
I agree it would be nice if there were some standards that everyone agreed to use, but I don't run into this problem. I don't think the average user (aka the masses) have this problem often either.
It certainly has no relevance to desktop search either. (then again, SSDS doesn't either)
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Right, so it must be stored in a mythical unicorn format that no other program could ever read!
Or XML. Same diff... :)
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
I agree it would be nice if there were some standards that everyone agreed to use, but I don't run into this problem. I don't think the average user (aka the masses) have this problem often either.
It certainly has no relevance to desktop search either. (then again, SSDS doesn't either)
Actually, I think at some point, only WDS (and not other desktop search apps) could search OneNote. Don't know if this is still true and it doesn't affect me (don't use OneNote), but I'd wager it has affected some people at some point. One blog commenter (I know, a highly authoritative source) complained that he had to keep WDS installed to search OneNote, although his tool of choice was GDS.
http://chris.pirillo.com/2007/06/11/google-desktop-search-vs-windows-vista-search/
(And look at all the people complaining about OneNote's integration with WDS)
http://blogs.msdn.com/chris_pratley/archive/2006/05/25/ultimate-onenote-2007.aspx
You can't (usefully) search/index a file's contents unless it is a known format, or something that resembles plain or structured text.
So Swamp is on to something, but his solution is terrible.
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@GalacticCowboy said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Right, so it must be stored in a mythical unicorn format that no other program could ever read!
Or XML. Same diff... :)
Then why would you sound surprised that WDS can parse through and index this?
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@SpectateSwamp said:
People can compute without a computer. A couple DVD's and a local Library.
And you think your local library will let you run any program you want on their computers? Not at my local library. I spent a couple days writing a nice script that absolutely locked down the PCs they were using, so that it was quite literally impossible to download/install/run anything that wasn't authorized.
At best you could stuff in your SwampDisc and load up your text files in notepad, assuming the library even allows notepad to be run. They won't be letting your search.exe trash their systems, and they won't be installing all the necessary VB runtime .dll's if they're not there already, just so you can flash random text and video on-screen.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@GalacticCowboy said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Right, so it must be stored in a mythical unicorn format that no other program could ever read!
Or XML. Same diff... :)
Then why would you sound surprised that WDS can parse through and index this?
Okay, take a deep breath... Feel better?
The XML comment was a joke. Hence the smiley. I haven't the foggiest what format it's stored in, but my guess (having actually looked at the Tablet API before) is that it's storing the stroke data. Given the weakness of the program's ability to right-click on a block of hand-written text and convert it to a typeface, I was somewhat surprised that it was 1) able to index it and 2) actually did a passable job of matching words. It is possible that this only works for blocks of content that you CAN actually convert to text, but this feature only seems to work for the most trivial examples - it has problems with paragraphs, for example, and also seems to overlay multiple blocks of content at inopportune times. Most of the time for a non-trivial block of content it assumes it's a graphic, which it can't or won't convert to text.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
I don't think the average user (aka the masses) have this problem often either.
To be fair, I agree that the average user does not care about these issues.
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@GalacticCowboy said:
Okay, take a deep breath... Feel better?
The XML comment was a joke. Hence the smiley.
How did you infer any kind of anger from my question?
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Who said anything about anger? You seemed to take my XML comment literally, so I was setting the record straight. Yes, if they're storing XML then there is no reason at all that WDS couldn't index it. But even if it is stored in XML, what is stored? How do they go from stroke data to meaningful text when OneNote itself apparently can't make that leap?
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@GalacticCowboy said:
Who said anything about anger?
@GalacticCowboy said:
Okay, take a deep breath... Feel better?
@GalacticCowboy said:
Yes, if they're storing XML then there is no reason at all that WDS couldn't index it. But even if it is stored in XML, what is stored? How do they go from stroke data to meaningful text when OneNote itself apparently can't make that leap?
So you don't think the WDS crew had acess to the format data from the OneNote crew?
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
So you don't think the WDS crew had acess to the format data from the OneNote crew?
Then the WDS crew should have beaten the OneNote crew with a clue-stick. My point is, OneNote claims to be unable to convert a block of content to text. Yet somehow WDS can extract meaning from that same block of content. So either: 1) OneNote is being obtuse or 2) OneNote actually does know what text is in the block of content but refuses to convert it out of spite or 3) WDS does something that OneNote doesn't. I'm leaning toward A.
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You guys are totally missing the point. Who in the hell said you could have a rational discussion in this thread?
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@insta said:
You guys are totally missing the point. Who in the hell said you could have a rational discussion in this thread?
That's why I appologized up front for hijacking the thread. I'll shut up now... back to your randomly scheduled video and search.
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@GalacticCowboy said:
back to your randomly scheduled video and search.
{Insert joke about videoing in OneNote format and searching it with SSDS here}
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Go Yellow with Swamp Search
@WWWWolf said:
Look, this wouldn't be particularly exciting television. Creating art of any kind, programming included, makes for dull watching. Reality/contest TV show about writing desktop search would be just as exciting as making a reality/contest TV show about writers.
TV Now your talking. I was thinking of a showdown at some Geek Fest. Shit I'll paint my head yellow for TV. YellowHead returns. I'll rant on about politics because us Swampies will have such a big lead right off the bat.
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Swamp Search for the Poor
@bstorer said:
Not to mention that you have to burn the DVDs somehow. I've not been to a library that will burn DVDs for me.
I guess Libraries never have much call for that type of service. It would be handy for anybody that can't afford a computer but knows about Swamp Search. Might just as well include the HomeLess. What a wonderful program that can do all that.
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Video burn of the Take Down - With crowd reactions.
@CodeSimian said:
Navigable DVD's with everything from how to use SSDS, to Building your first EXE, to Where the wonderful souls at TheDailyWTF are going to take this program. The DVD would include screen re-shoots; then a Yellowheaded guy with a camera moving through the crowd capturing more footage for the final DVD burn Minutes later. The crowd will want a copy because they will be the demo.@SpectateSwamp said:
Real projects burned and given to the crowd.
Nobody understands what this means.
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OneNote for those that can't type - Good Idea
@GalacticCowboy said:
Now here's the really brilliant part. I use OneNote quite a bit, and WDS even searched within my hand-written notes to find matches. Is that f'ing brilliant, or what? It even gives a "confidence" score of how accurate the match is.
OneNote may work for Swamp Search. Who makes it? You are pretty wordy here. So you can type. Why the hand-written stuff? or are you just showing off.
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Libraries should change
@MarcB said:
Our local library has a couple DVD's set to autorun displaying the Political Forums. Who's idea was it to lock down computers like that. Teach them to backup and reload the OS like I do. Computer resources and data should be shared. Not locked down. Swamp makes sharing data easy.At best you could stuff in your SwampDisc and load up your text files in notepad, assuming the library even allows notepad to be run. They won't be letting your search.exe trash their systems, and they won't be installing all the necessary VB runtime .dll's if they're not there already, just so you can flash random text and video on-screen.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Computer resources and data should be shared. Not locked down.
Yes. A very admirable stance.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Swamp makes sharing data easy.
No. THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE YOU RETARD.
The one statement has nothing to do with the other. I think you are trying to say "keeping everything in text files makes sharing data easy." Well, that is debatable, but this is not: nobody needs SSDS to use text files. I don't know how many times I can tell you this: SSDS does not "help" you keep all your data in a handful of text files, it forces you to do so. Nobody wants to use an application which forces them to work in a way which is inconvenient, illogical and confusing.
You have reverted to your old form of making nonsensical statements which do not logically follow from each other. Please try to advance a coherent argument.
Hope you are still enjoying all the attention. You have to understand that you are merely infuriating and entertaining everyone on this forum. You are doing nothing to advance your cause, and you have even wasted the few sympathetic offers of help that've been tossed your way.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Our local library has a couple DVD's set to autorun displaying the Political Forums.
Oh god, I thought I was being sarcastic when I made comments about you running the library (only one?) in Whitecourt. It seems that the inmates are indeed running the asylum over there.
So how many books does your library have, Swamp? 8 or 20?
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@SpectateSwamp said:
TV Now your talking. I was thinking of a showdown at some Geek Fest. Shit I'll paint my head yellow for TV. YellowHead returns. I'll rant on about politics because us Swampies will have such a big lead right off the bat.
Guess what? Right: THAT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE YOU RETARD.
But to a few other things:- Yes please paint your head yellow! We'll take care of the TV... stuff.
- What does Desktop Search have to do with politics?
- Have you any source (as in, "video") to confirm that "big lead" theory? In the one political video of your's where you take some "speech", I only see people laughing at you.
- THERE ARE NO OTHER SWAMPIES! How often do we have to tell you?
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Who's idea was it to lock down computers like that. Teach them to backup and reload the OS like I do. Computer resources and data should be shared. Not locked down. Swamp makes sharing data easy.
Ours, as in the library I.T. guys. It may be easy for you to wipe/reload your computer 10 times a day everytime your DSL hiccups (btw, just because your DSL connection is down doesn't mean you have to reinstall Windows), but when you have 100+ machines available for public use, a daily wipe/reinstall of Windows is in no way a practical or smart option. In fact, it's a moronic waste of time. Perfect for you, in other words.
You know absolutely nothing about how Windows NT behaves on a network, while a member of a domain. So don't just say "wipe and reinstall". That works for you, it doesn't work for anyone dealing with more than one or two machines. Either we make individual images of every machine, which would require approximately 1.5 TERABYTES of storage somewhere to keep them (given the software bundle installed on those machines), or we maintain one standard image, and run SID-changers and do domain joins for every machine after a re-imaging.
We do share our computers, we just choose to set limits as to what can be done with them. And one thing that is absolutely forbidden is installing or running "foreign" software on the computers. The I.T. department has more important things to do than clean up those 100 machines every time they barf all over themselves because an idiot like you installed the latest "screensaver" that was sent to them in the mail.
And since you won't understand anything of what I've just said, let's put it this way: If you invite someone into the SwampShack, does that give them the right to destroy it? Knock down the walls? Set fire in the toilet? Shoot your dog? Spray flourescent pink paint all over your beard?
That's exactly what happens when you offer a "free" computer to someone with no limits. It gets destroyed, and someone else has to clean up the mess.
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@MarcB said:
In fact, it's a moronic waste of time. Perfect for you, in other words.
@MarcB said:
That works for you, it doesn't work for anyone dealing with more than one or two machines.
Unfortunately for all of us, SociopathSwamp is utterly incapable of seeing any issue from anyone else's point of view other than his own.
I guarantee when he read your post, all he got was: "BLA BLA BLA <geeky waste of time>...BLA BLA BLA <bunch of bs that doesn't apply to me>"
