ASP .NET Questions...and WTF's and Rant
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I work at a small (4-5 people) web/software company. We're involved on this ASP website (backend in C#), where we're doing the front end and there's this programmer on the end of Skype who's writing the code behind it. From my perspective it's been one WTF after another, but with my limited knowledge I'm asking you, gentle wtf spotters, if you can confirm and enlighten me:
1. AJAX has to be installed on IIS - considering this is a group of technologies and not a "thing", wtf?
2. There's a form that needs to be submitted from somewhere else on the page. Apparently we cant do document.getElementById( thformname).submit() because the onclick handler of the normal submit button fires off something to the server. I suggested moving that into the form's onsubmit, but apparently "we cant do that". If we assume that the normal submit button just submits the form (and there's no ajax malarkey) could there be anything "invisible" that ASP or .NET expects to get back that might be circumvented by submitting the form from somewhere else? (In a maintaining state kind of way)
..of course the real WTF(tm) is that the page designs were sent through in drips and drabs, so identifying the common parts was very difficult. This led to bad assumptions being made about how things should lay out, and a ton of javascript to tweak individual elements into position on different browsers. The frontend's being written by the placement student, the backend by a guy who's from a C++ background and has done little web programming, the designer's strong point is print rather than sites, and the issues I have with my manager's managing ability are being mentioned by all parties.
I'm torn between "thank god I was busy on something else, or it would have been my project" and "If it had been mine, I'd have done it better...and maybe got them to use php" (commence flames)
3. Dammit I had more, but I've lost the will to live.BTW I dont know all that much about ASP .NET. I've used .NET to write a couple of windows apps in C++, and i've maintained some ASP code in my time, but that's about it.
Other potential WTF's:
Had to explain to our designer once what anti-aliasing was. "No I cant just put this over the top of the image, it's antialiased to white!". She still gives us stuff like that.
Web site design is a picture - mock up if you're lucky (read: click slideshow) - or if today's gonna be a great day, a pdf containing all the pages with a sentence explaining what the page may do. You have to guess what fonts are for example. I might start insisting on a wooden table background...My boss's interview technique is a list of questions, read almost robotically from a sheet without making much eye contact with interviewee (I was taking notes in a couple and felt very awkward, I can only imagine how bad the candidates felt). The programming test is pretty much "write some sql to select all the rows in a table called blah". The practical test is "can you implement this form from this picture, and make it email X telling them blah", which as ive touched upon is more information than you normally get.
Am I expecting too much from a small web company?
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@wilko said:
1. AJAX has to be installed on IIS - considering this is a group of technologies and not a "thing", wtf?
You are using the Microsoft AJAX libraries. Of course you need to install them on the webserver. How else are you going to use them?
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I always took AJAX to involve a client side request to the web server. Considering the browser knows about javascript, I assume .NET knows about XML, what else does any of them need to know?
(I understand that you have to install extensions and libraries into IIS, as you would have to with php for example. What I mean is, why for AJAX? I dont have to tell apache that I'll be using javascript client side?!)
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http://www.asp.net/ajax/
Read up. You don't understand how this works, and you are using it. Do your research first.
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You can do AJAX just fine WITHOUT using the Microsoft AJAX toolkit.
However, if you want all the nice features of that toolkit, then you need to copy over System.Web.Extensions.dll into your applications BIN folder, and set up a few settings in your web.config. You don't need to install anything into IIS, you are mistaken.
As far as your 2nd WTF, place a <asp:button> on your page, set its visibility to false.
Then, whereever you actually do want to submit the form, have the that elements onclick call "__dopostback('youraspbuttonsname','');"
Problem solved. ASP.NET isn't really a WTF at all when you understand it.
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@Jonathan Holland said:
You don't need to install anything into IIS, you are mistaken.
Agreed. I didn't really take that wording seriously, but he just might be that confused.
I still think he needs to stop what he is doing and do some serious reading.
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Thanks Jonathan, very informative.
Apologies to MasterPlan coming to this without researching. It's difficult to find the time, when you're on your own on a project, past deadline, the guy people ask for coding help, fixing contractors apalling code, the server admin, and primarily a php developer (these days). It makes you not want to do anything else programming related in your spare time.
Maybe I needed a rant, and this was the wrong place to do it. Lesson learned.
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@wilko said:
this was the wrong place to do it. Lesson learned.
I wasn't saying you shouldn't rant here, but I really do think you need to do some research, and figure out what you are doing. Otherwise, it sounds like you are creating one of the monsters destined for the front page...
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@Jonathan Holland said:
You can do AJAX just fine WITHOUT using the Microsoft AJAX toolkit.
However, if you want all the nice features of that toolkit, then you need to copy over System.Web.Extensions.dll into your applications BIN folder, and set up a few settings in your web.config. You don't need to install anything into IIS, you are mistaken.
As far as your 2nd WTF, place a <asp:button> on your page, set its visibility to false.
Then, whereever you actually do want to submit the form, have the that elements onclick call "__dopostback('youraspbuttonsname','');"
Problem solved. ASP.NET isn't really a WTF at all when you understand it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MasterAsshatPlan just got owned! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
Oh definitely! Agree 100%@wilko said:
this was the wrong place to do it. Lesson learned.
I wasn't saying you shouldn't rant here, but I really do think you need to do some research, and figure out what you are doing. Otherwise, it sounds like you are creating one of the monsters destined for the front page...
Remember though it's not my project, I'm snowed under with another ajaxy monstrosity in php (also behind schedule, but then if you allocate a week to it....) wtf's to follow perhaps :P. I've been trying to help the student guy come to terms with web projects <insertcompanyname>-style as best I can.
Blind leading the blind with a blind guide dog into a dark room at night. wtf
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@Lysis said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MasterAsshatPlan just got owned! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You really are trying hard to find fault with MasterPlan aren't you. He did not get owned here, he made a valid assumption.
Why do you need to install AJAX on your IIS server? Because you are using the MS AJAX libraries.
This is a valid answer to the question posed. No you don't need to use the MS AJAX libraries as MasterPlan agreed with later, but when someone says they need to be installed, obviously they are using them.
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Re: ASP .NET Rants
Probably I hate "postbacks" more than anything. Because people start to go "hey, this is just like Windows Forms!!" and forget (or never learn) how to properly create a hyperlink, control elements' attributes, submit a form, or doing anything client-side without having to resort to awkward postbacks.
(And now I feel like an ancient 1990 Windows API coder appaled by the fact that "normal" people will never see a DefWindowProc() in their lives.)
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@KattMan said:
@Lysis said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MasterAsshatPlan just got owned! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You really are trying hard to find fault with MasterPlan aren't you. He did not get owned here, he made a valid assumption.
Why do you need to install AJAX on your IIS server? Because you are using the MS AJAX libraries.
This is a valid answer to the question posed. No you don't need to use the MS AJAX libraries as MasterPlan agreed with later, but when someone says they need to be installed, obviously they are using them.
Perhaps instead of assuming he should take his own advice and do research. His words; not mine.
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@Lysis said:
@KattMan said:
@Lysis said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MasterAsshatPlan just got owned! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You really are trying hard to find fault with MasterPlan aren't you. He did not get owned here, he made a valid assumption.
Why do you need to install AJAX on your IIS server? Because you are using the MS AJAX libraries.
This is a valid answer to the question posed. No you don't need to use the MS AJAX libraries as MasterPlan agreed with later, but when someone says they need to be installed, obviously they are using them.
Perhaps instead of assuming he should take his own advice and do research. His words; not mine.
In reading comprehension, you fail.
When told you have to install AJAX on the server you may ask why. The answer to this is, because you are using the MS AJAX Toolkit.
If you used any other method you would not need to do an install on the server. So while this is an assumption there is only one logical conclusion.
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@KattMan said:
@Lysis said:
@KattMan said:
@Lysis said:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MasterAsshatPlan just got owned! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You really are trying hard to find fault with MasterPlan aren't you. He did not get owned here, he made a valid assumption.
Why do you need to install AJAX on your IIS server? Because you are using the MS AJAX libraries.
This is a valid answer to the question posed. No you don't need to use the MS AJAX libraries as MasterPlan agreed with later, but when someone says they need to be installed, obviously they are using them.
Perhaps instead of assuming he should take his own advice and do research. His words; not mine.
In reading comprehension, you fail.
When told you have to install AJAX on the server you may ask why. The answer to this is, because you are using the MS AJAX Toolkit.
If you used any other method you would not need to do an install on the server. So while this is an assumption there is only one logical conclusion.
So, as long as you make a *good* wrong assumption, it's ok. LOL I see how you think! MasterAsshat proceeded to berate the OP due to his inability to do research before asking when MasterAsshat himself was in fact blatantly incorrect. It's ok. You can defend the person in the wrong in the name of humor. I rofl'd myself. ;)
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@KattMan said:
@Lysis said:
[troll troll troll]
[heaps of yummy troll food]
Katt, take note of what you're doing.
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@dhromed said:
@KattMan said:
@Lysis said:
[troll troll troll]
[heaps of yummy troll food]
Katt, take note of what you're doing.
I agree. Please don't defend me to Lysis. I really don't pay attention to teenage trolls.
He is just white noise in between posts.
