Apple WTF



  • @dlikhten said:

    FYI: I called up Apple... I was given the following statement: "Apple does not need an anti-virus, the chances of you getting one is next to nothing, in my career I never experienced anyone having a virus on an Apple... etc..."

    They said this, not ambiguously, I asked tons of questions, they all lead to the same answer.

     

    And everyone is anyone I know, or meet. Maybe a few people on this site dissagree with me because they had a good experience, but that is rare. No it is not one guy who I say everyone in the world. Had it been one guy I would not say that.

    Man, I don't care what color the sky is on your planet, I want to move there. Big companies respond to spurious legal threats, front-line call-center people set corporate policy, and there's such a strong sense of community that "everyone" and "everyone I know" are effectively identical. Sweet.

    @suzilou said:

    The only problem I've ever had with Dell is when, many years ago, I bought a machine loaded with Win2KPro. The offer at the time was that when XPPro came out, they'd send me the upgrade free. Well, after following the procedure (calling or submitting an online form with the offer number, etc) I just couldn't get my upgrade. I kept detailed notes of my multiple conversations with them as documentation. The resolution was when I simply went out and bought the upgrade myself....and sent the receipt to them. I was reimbursed quickly and don't remember having to push for it at all.

    The only problem I've ever had with Dell is that all 4 of the brand new Dell machines I've had to deal with over the years had significant hardware failures within the first year. I don't refuse to buy Dell products because of that, though. On the other hand, since Dell computers don't run Mac OS X and I now use it exclusively, it's kind of a moot point. I guess I'd be willing to buy a monitor from them or something, for what it's worth. :P



  • @morpcat said:

    the motherboard died
    @morpcat said:
    it broke again - motherboard once more
    @morpcat said:
    it got hit by a football, motherboard broke again

    Wow, just wow. 

    @dlikhten said:

    Apple also has the anti-virus approach of: It is imposible to write a virus for an apple. Go figure.

    Actually, I always thought they thought of it like drinking a gallon of milk in an hour.  Of course you can, but who would want to? 



  • @The Vicar said:

    The only problem I've ever had with Dell is that all 4 of the brand new Dell machines I've had to deal with over the years had significant hardware failures within the first year. I don't refuse to buy Dell products because of that, though. On the other hand, since Dell computers don't run Mac OS X and I now use it exclusively, it's kind of a moot point. I guess I'd be willing to buy a monitor from them or something, for what it's worth. :P
     

     Yeesh!  I still have the computer I referred to above - original hardware and everything.  Though I rarely use it because the RDRAM is too dern expensive to buy and 384MB just doesn't cut it.  So I got my company to get me a new one :-)



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    So you are going to make a class action lawsuit because Apple wont directly give you warranty replacement parts and instead insists that you let their service department do the warranty work?

    Wow...  Let me know how that works for you. If you can, film the lawyer as he laughs you out of his office. I would love to see that.

     

     

    No, I said nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that fighting a large-scale legal battle over some company-wide practice that you perceive as unfair or illegal is preciesly what class-action lawsuits are for. Personally, I think the merits of any lawsuits discussed in this thread are pretty thin, but that's neither here nor there. Thanks for jumping to conclusions, though.



  • @Maciej said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    So you are going to make a class action lawsuit because Apple wont directly give you warranty replacement parts and instead insists that you let their service department do the warranty work?

    Wow...  Let me know how that works for you. If you can, film the lawyer as he laughs you out of his office. I would love to see that.

     

     

    No, I said nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that fighting a large-scale legal battle over some company-wide practice that you perceive as unfair or illegal is preciesly what class-action lawsuits are for. Personally, I think the merits of any lawsuits discussed in this thread are pretty thin, but that's neither here nor there. Thanks for jumping to conclusions, though.

     

    Right, because in the original context we had dlikhten advocating threatening a lawsuit, and me saying it was a stupid idea.

    Of course, then you threw your two cents in that  it should be a class action lawsuit, simply because the OP wasn't getting his way in his amount of time.

    But hey, I randomly throw tidbits into conversations and get mad when people call them crazy too.



  •  @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Maciej said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    So you are going to make a class action lawsuit because Apple wont directly give you warranty replacement parts and instead insists that you let their service department do the warranty work?

    Wow...  Let me know how that works for you. If you can, film the lawyer as he laughs you out of his office. I would love to see that.

     

     

    No, I said nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that fighting a large-scale legal battle over some company-wide practice that you perceive as unfair or illegal is preciesly what class-action lawsuits are for. Personally, I think the merits of any lawsuits discussed in this thread are pretty thin, but that's neither here nor there. Thanks for jumping to conclusions, though.

     

    Right, because in the original context we had dlikhten advocating threatening a lawsuit, and me saying it was a stupid idea.

    Of course, then you threw your two cents in that  it should be a class action lawsuit, simply because the OP wasn't getting his way in his amount of time.

    But hey, I randomly throw tidbits into conversations and get mad when people call them crazy too.

     

    I'm sorry I pointed out that part of your arugment was weak. If it makes you feel better, I think it would be a pretty silly lawsuit, too.

     


  • @Maciej said:

    I'm sorry I pointed out that part of your arugment was weak. If it makes you feel better, I think it would be a pretty silly lawsuit, too.
     

    You are right. Obviously the OP should not have been polite and persistent. Instead, he should have threatened a class action lawsuit.

    Good job. I concede defeat after being enlightened with your wisdom.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Maciej said:

    I'm sorry I pointed out that part of your arugment was weak. If it makes you feel better, I think it would be a pretty silly lawsuit, too.

    You are right. Obviously the OP should not have been polite and persistent. Instead, he should have threatened a class action lawsuit.

    Good job. I concede defeat after being enlightened with your wisdom.

     

     

    How about this: from now on, you stop putting words in my mouth, and I won't even read, let alone formulate criticisms of anything you post. Deal?



  • @Maciej said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Maciej said:

    I'm sorry I pointed out that part of your arugment was weak. If it makes you feel better, I think it would be a pretty silly lawsuit, too.

    You are right. Obviously the OP should not have been polite and persistent. Instead, he should have threatened a class action lawsuit.

    Good job. I concede defeat after being enlightened with your wisdom.

     

     

    How about this: from now on, you stop putting words in my mouth, and I won't even read, let alone formulate criticisms of anything you post. Deal?

     

    Right... because I wouldn't want a class action lawsuit... Oh noes!



  • @Maciej said:

    How about this: from now on, you stop putting words in my mouth, and I won't even read, let alone formulate criticisms of anything you post. Deal?



     He's just a troll... ignore him!


  • @dlikhten said:

    @Maciej said:

    How about this: from now on, you stop putting words in my mouth, and I won't even read, let alone formulate criticisms of anything you post. Deal?



     He's just a troll... ignore him!
     

    Right, which is what you call anyone who points out how retarded one of your posts sounds.



  • @snoofle said:

    Four months ago, my windows pc died, so I took the plunge and bought an iMac. Last week, the cd/dvd drive died. Since it's under warranty, I called Apple's support line and asked for it to be fixed. After 35 minutes on hold, some buffoon answers, walks through the usual support script questions and decides the drive is broken. They don't send parts, so they tell me to take it to the local Apple store. But you can only go by appointment (unless you like sitting there hoping for an opening), and they only have appointments in the middle of the workday (there are 4 stores within 20 miles; I tried them all). I make the appointment and note on it that the drive is busted and needs to be replaced per Apple support. Ok, I take the day off and go there. The guy looks at it for 5 minutes and announces it's a bad drive; leave the machine for 10-14 days and we'll get to it.

    10-14 days? Maybe that's ok for 12 year olds accessing my-space, and retired couples sending pix of the grandkids, but I use mine to access work and couldn't leave it. I asked them to just give me the replacement part and I'd install it. No can do. I tell the guy to pretend I don't have a warranty and just SELL me the replacement part. No can do: not user serviceable (I've been building PC's for 25 years). I offered to sign a waiver that if I caused any damage, that Apple wouldn't be responsible, but still got "Sorry, can't help you."

    Let me get this straight: I've got a 4 month old iMac still under warranty, and the only way to get it fixed is to leave it for 10-14 days?

    Determined, I called Apple support again, waited 30 minutes before someone answered, asked for a supervisor, and got put on hold for 20 minutes. I hung up, called back, waited 30 more minutes, finally got transferred to level-2 support, explained the problem, ran through some diagnostics, and the guy announced that he has determined that the drive is bad and needs to be replaced. I told him I couldn't leave the unit for 2 weeks, so he offered to send someone to the house to fix it (why didn't the previous folks know that you could do that?). OK, but after 4 days, nobody has called to schedule an appointment, and of course, the 2nd level tech doesn't return phone calls.

    Is Apply trying to alienate it's customers?

    Has anyone else had this type of experience with Apple?

     

     

    Years ago (in 1999 I think), I ordered one of the original I-Macs.  Turned it on.  Dead screen.  Took it to Apple repair shop which took about 2 weeks to fix it.  A few years later, the slot loader CD-ROM drive broke, and I was never able to fix it, nor able to order a replacement drive.  I eventually trashed it, and the computers I buy these days run Linux. 



  • @el_oscuro said:

    Is Apply trying to alienate it's customers?

    Has anyone else had this type of experience with Apple?

    If this thread had appeared on a forum any near related to Apple, it would have either:

    a) Been deleted, or
    b) Have already reached 1000 posts from the Apple Acoylote's telling the OP that he is wrong and that Steve Jobs will one day rule the universe.

    Maybe someone should post a link to it on a fanboy site and see what happens...



  • @dlikhten said:

    The point is: Apple is breaching contract.

    1) Apple is refusing to repair his computer during an acceptable time

    2) Apple is only willing to repair during his work time, which means that HE will loose money for trying to repair an apple computer.

    He has every right to sue apple to do the following:

    1) Repair the computer at his convenience + compensate for time spent

    2) Compensate for time spent on lawsute AND  compensate for lost work time.

    Remember its cheaper to send a repair dude to your house and repair the dvd than it is to go though a lawsute, even against you and you alone. What... 100 bucks spent vs 1000? As a corporation they would be inclined for the former. They just want to discourage you from doing anything.

     

    Are you really this dumb? Apple has no obligation to meet YOUR schedule. Their obligation is to repair the product while it's under warranty, period. If you choose not to avail yourself of that repair, that's your choice (and your loss). 

    Try this the next time your car needs work: Call the nearest dealership, and tell them that you're only available between 10:00PM and midnight, because of your work and family schedules. Tell them you want them to stay open to fix your car during those hours or you'll sue.

    When they finish laughing, and have had time to share the story with all of the other people who work there so that they can have a good laugh as well, call back and make an appointment during their regular business hours to have the work done, or make arrangements to drop it off the night before so they can do the work the next day during regular business hours.

    People like you are what make the courts so crowded with BS lawsuits. You know, like the woman who won the suit against McDonald's because she was stupid enough to put a scalding hot cup of coffee against her crotch and got burned? Or the moronic judge in DC who filed suit against the dry cleaner for multi-millions of dollars because they didn't get his trousers done on time? You fit well with them.  



  • @Maciej said:

    Thanks guy, I did. I see a suggestion to sue them because they refuse to sell replacement parts directly to consumers. Without going into the merit of such a lawsuit, that sure sounds like a company-wide policy. 

     

    Wow! Combine this idea for a frivilous lawsuit with one that also sues Apple for refusing to sell OSX to run on non-Apple hardware, and you could have two equally stupid lawsuits laughed out of court! What genius! 

    Let's also sue MS because Windows doesn't run on my Magellan GPS, and Ford because I can't buy parts from Toyota to fix my Explorer. Then, of course, we can go after Harley Davidson because their parts can't repair my HDTV! We'll all be rich!



  • @KenW said:

    @dlikhten said:

    The point is: Apple is breaching contract.

    1) Apple is refusing to repair his computer during an acceptable time

    2) Apple is only willing to repair during his work time, which means that HE will loose money for trying to repair an apple computer.

    He has every right to sue apple to do the following:

    1) Repair the computer at his convenience + compensate for time spent

    2) Compensate for time spent on lawsute AND  compensate for lost work time.

    Remember its cheaper to send a repair dude to your house and repair the dvd than it is to go though a lawsute, even against you and you alone. What... 100 bucks spent vs 1000? As a corporation they would be inclined for the former. They just want to discourage you from doing anything.

     

    Are you really this dumb? Apple has no obligation to meet YOUR schedule. Their obligation is to repair the product while it's under warranty, period. If you choose not to avail yourself of that repair, that's your choice (and your loss). 

    Try this the next time your car needs work: Call the nearest dealership, and tell them that you're only available between 10:00PM and midnight, because of your work and family schedules. Tell them you want them to stay open to fix your car during those hours or you'll sue.

    When they finish laughing, and have had time to share the story with all of the other people who work there so that they can have a good laugh as well, call back and make an appointment during their regular business hours to have the work done, or make arrangements to drop it off the night before so they can do the work the next day during regular business hours.

    People like you are what make the courts so crowded with BS lawsuits. You know, like the woman who won the suit against McDonald's because she was stupid enough to put a scalding hot cup of coffee against her crotch and got burned? Or the moronic judge in DC who filed suit against the dry cleaner for multi-millions of dollars because they didn't get his trousers done on time? You fit well with them.  

     

    Ok...

    Lets look at a different company... Lets say Dell...

    I bought a Dell laptop. Something went wrong, I contact support and after 10 minutes they decide that the motherboard needs to be replaced. They gave me a couple of options:

    1) They send me parts, and I do it myself.

    2) They send a guy to do it, but I need an appointment during my work time.

    3) I send them laptop and they fix it.

    I explored all choises, looked at assembly instructions, didn't feel like going through the pains of (1).

    (2) was out of the question.

    I did option 3. In 5 days after replying to that email I had my fixed laptop delivered to me.

    Then problem persisted, turns out my battery circuitry went bad. No problem they sent me a new battery, I sent them the old one. This was overnight delivery from them. No cost to me, a happy customer, and will do business with them again.

     

    Thats good business... with Apple I wonder if recurring customers exist...



  • Also FYI don't claim lawsuts are baseless...

    Dell had a lawsute recently. They would ship parts to their customers to have them replace the parts themselves (save on worker and shipping costs). This satisfied the warrenty but nobody could fix anything, people simply are not all good at repairing computer hardware. There was a class action lawsute and dell was forced to service the computers with techs that came to someone's house or after people shipped it to Dell.

    Dell claimed "Hey, we gave instructions on how to do it"

    Court ruled in favor of the people and they got some cash and forced dell to repair their crap.

    If a company is abusing their customers even with things like this, the courts can help the customers, not necessarily for millions of dollars, but for the amount that the customer lost when dealing with company (and time spent, caz thats lost money too). I never said the OP should sue for <dr. evil>one hundred billion dollars </dr. evil> I said sue for about 2000 (the price of the comp).



  •  @dlikhten said:

    @KenW said:

    @dlikhten said:

    The point is: Apple is breaching contract.

    1) Apple is refusing to repair his computer during an acceptable time

    2) Apple is only willing to repair during his work time, which means that HE will loose money for trying to repair an apple computer.

    He has every right to sue apple to do the following:

    1) Repair the computer at his convenience + compensate for time spent

    2) Compensate for time spent on lawsute AND  compensate for lost work time.

    Remember its cheaper to send a repair dude to your house and repair the dvd than it is to go though a lawsute, even against you and you alone. What... 100 bucks spent vs 1000? As a corporation they would be inclined for the former. They just want to discourage you from doing anything.

     

    Are you really this dumb? Apple has no obligation to meet YOUR schedule. Their obligation is to repair the product while it's under warranty, period. If you choose not to avail yourself of that repair, that's your choice (and your loss). 

    Try this the next time your car needs work: Call the nearest dealership, and tell them that you're only available between 10:00PM and midnight, because of your work and family schedules. Tell them you want them to stay open to fix your car during those hours or you'll sue.

    When they finish laughing, and have had time to share the story with all of the other people who work there so that they can have a good laugh as well, call back and make an appointment during their regular business hours to have the work done, or make arrangements to drop it off the night before so they can do the work the next day during regular business hours.

    People like you are what make the courts so crowded with BS lawsuits. You know, like the woman who won the suit against McDonald's because she was stupid enough to put a scalding hot cup of coffee against her crotch and got burned? Or the moronic judge in DC who filed suit against the dry cleaner for multi-millions of dollars because they didn't get his trousers done on time? You fit well with them.  

     

    Ok...

    Lets look at a different company... Lets say Dell...

    I bought a Dell laptop. Something went wrong, I contact support and after 10 minutes they decide that the motherboard needs to be replaced. They gave me a couple of options:

    1) They send me parts, and I do it myself.

    2) They send a guy to do it, but I need an appointment during my work time.

    3) I send them laptop and they fix it.

    I explored all choises, looked at assembly instructions, didn't feel like going through the pains of (1).

    (2) was out of the question.

    I did option 3. In 5 days after replying to that email I had my fixed laptop delivered to me.

    Then problem persisted, turns out my battery circuitry went bad. No problem they sent me a new battery, I sent them the old one. This was overnight delivery from them. No cost to me, a happy customer, and will do business with them again.

     

    Thats good business... with Apple I wonder if recurring customers exist...

    This does not change the point that you had been making and we are arguing. Apple is NOT OBLIGATED to do anything of the sort. Would it be nice? Yes. Would it be better for business? Probably.

    But you argued the OP should sue because Apple support != dell or your expectations of support.



  • @dlikhten said:

    Also FYI don't claim lawsuts are baseless...

    Dell had a lawsute recently. They would ship parts to their customers to have them replace the parts themselves (save on worker and shipping costs). This satisfied the warrenty but nobody could fix anything, people simply are not all good at repairing computer hardware. There was a class action lawsute and dell was forced to service the computers with techs that came to someone's house or after people shipped it to Dell.

    Dell claimed "Hey, we gave instructions on how to do it"

    Court ruled in favor of the people and they got some cash and forced dell to repair their crap.

    If a company is abusing their customers even with things like this, the courts can help the customers, not necessarily for millions of dollars, but for the amount that the customer lost when dealing with company (and time spent, caz thats lost money too). I never said the OP should sue for <dr. evil>one hundred billion dollars </dr. evil> I said sue for about 2000 (the price of the comp).

     

    Lawsuit. It is spelled lawsuit.

    Confucius says: "He who cannot spell lawsuit should not be quick to file one."



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @dlikhten said:

    Also FYI don't claim lawsuts are baseless...

    Dell had a lawsute recently. They would ship parts to their customers to have them replace the parts themselves (save on worker and shipping costs). This satisfied the warrenty but nobody could fix anything, people simply are not all good at repairing computer hardware. There was a class action lawsute and dell was forced to service the computers with techs that came to someone's house or after people shipped it to Dell.

    Dell claimed "Hey, we gave instructions on how to do it"

    Court ruled in favor of the people and they got some cash and forced dell to repair their crap.

    If a company is abusing their customers even with things like this, the courts can help the customers, not necessarily for millions of dollars, but for the amount that the customer lost when dealing with company (and time spent, caz thats lost money too). I never said the OP should sue for <dr. evil>one hundred billion dollars </dr. evil> I said sue for about 2000 (the price of the comp).

     

    Lawsuit. It is spelled lawsuit.

    Confucius says: "He who cannot spell lawsuit should not be quick to file one."

     

    Yet again, you choose to ignore any point that you cannot argue against and just shun it down with "lawsuit is not spelled as lawsute". w/e i'm done replying to your posts.



  • @dlikhten said:

    Also FYI don't claim lawsuts are baseless...

    No one did. We claimed the one you were advocating is. But WTF is a lawsut?

    @dlikhten said:

    Dell had a lawsute recently. They would ship parts to their customers to have them replace the parts themselves (save on worker and shipping costs). This satisfied the warrenty but nobody could fix anything, people simply are not all good at repairing computer hardware. There was a class action lawsute and dell was forced to service the computers with techs that came to someone's house or after people shipped it to Dell.

    Is a lawsut  == lawsute?Is warrenty == warranty?

    I highly doubt there was any lawsuit based on what you are (poorly) trying to describe here. Reference the proper law docs or this is meaningless. Dell has always (for many years at least, as long as I can remember them) had on-site, and ship to them service. But yes, they will allow you to replace the part yourself if you request it. In fact, this is exactly what you said in your last post. Maybe you got confused between now and then?

     @dlikhten said:

    Dell claimed "Hey, we gave instructions on how to do it"

    Court ruled in favor of the people and they got some cash and forced dell to repair their crap.


    Cite your reference.

    @dlikhten said:

    If a company is abusing their customers even with things like this, the courts can help the customers, not necessarily for millions of dollars, but for the amount that the customer lost when dealing with company (and time spent, caz thats lost money too).

    Sure the courts can help in a well documented case where something wrong has happened. But most rational people will choose the intelligent method of writing letters, and escalating their complaint while providing adequate proof. Suing because Dell or Apple has policies you don't agree with will not work.

    @dlikhten said:

    I never said the OP should sue for <dr. evil>one hundred billion dollars </dr. evil> I said sue for about 2000 (the price of the comp).

    And that is what I am arguing is stupid. He got what he wanted through the proper channels. There would have been no reason for Apple to give him 2000 or any price of any computer. First, depreciation comes into play here. Your purchase price will mean next to nothing. Second, it would be next to impossible to prove the computer was ruined (made worthless) by the failure of a DVD drive. Third, Apple was offering to fix this. They simply did not have the proper policy to suit the OPs needs. Crappy? Yes. Illegal? No.

    I cannot believe you will still argue in favor of a lawsuit when you were obviously proven wrong by the OP and his proper technique. I wish I could live in your fantasy world.



  • @dlikhten said:

    Yet again, you choose to ignore any point that you cannot argue against and just shun it down with "lawsuit is not spelled as lawsute". w/e i'm done replying to your posts.
     

    Awww poor baby. It will be a shame to see you give up on this argument.



  • @dlikhten said:

    I did option 3. In 5 days after replying to that email I had my fixed laptop delivered to me.

    Then problem persisted, turns out my battery circuitry went bad. No problem they sent me a new battery, I sent them the old one. This was overnight delivery from them. No cost to me, a happy customer, and will do business with them again.

     

    Thats good business... with Apple I wonder if recurring customers exist...

    So Apple's support policies are different from Dell's. That does not prove any contract has been breached.



  • In response to various comments regarding expectations of a company to honor its warranty... Over the decades, I've purchased numerous expensive widgets with varying levels of support/service. Sometimes, the company's policy is acceptable, sometimes it's not. More often than not, if you politely explain your unique circumstances and needs to the support staff (ask for a supervisor), they will make reasonable attempts to accommodate you as they would like you to buy their new and improved widget 2.0 when it becomes available. They know that if they blow you off, it's highly unlikely you will continue to patronize them, and highly likely you will spread word of their [un]responsiveness to everyone you know. The point is that a) I should not have assumed that Apple's warranty service was as good/convenient as Dell/Gateway (definitely my fault); b) Apple should have been (and ultimately was) somewhat willing to accommodate a polite request to work around unique circumstances; c) while it doesn't always work (I've got a few expensive door stops in my garage), more often than not, you can get what you need, but rarely via threats (you catch more flies with honey...)



  • @dlikhten said:

    FYI: I called up Apple... I was given the following statement: "Apple does not need an anti-virus, the chances of you getting one is next to nothing, in my career I never experienced anyone having a virus on an Apple... etc..."

    They said this, not ambiguously, I asked tons of questions, they all lead to the same answer.

    I'm curious, what exactly did you expect them to say? And why did you expect asking "tons of questions" to change the answer? Until there are actual Mac viruses are out there, an anti-virus isn't going to do anything useful.



  • @Seraph said:

    @dlikhten said:

    FYI: I called up Apple... I was given the following statement: "Apple does not need an anti-virus, the chances of you getting one is next to nothing, in my career I never experienced anyone having a virus on an Apple... etc..."

    They said this, not ambiguously, I asked tons of questions, they all lead to the same answer.

    I'm curious, what exactly did you expect them to say? And why did you expect asking "tons of questions" to change the answer? Until there are actual Mac viruses are out there, an anti-virus isn't going to do anything useful.

     

    Being that AV tools are written to look at patterns of known viri and search for similar patterns... it could chew through the empty virus definition files and waste CPU cycles...

    Out of curiousity, how many people run Linux AV BTW?



  • @dlikhten said:

    Apple also has the anti-virus approach of: It is imposible to write a virus for an apple. Go figure.

     

    Actually the approach is: there are no viruses at this time (but you could certainly run ClamAV if you really want to waste some CPU cycles)

     

    As for dealing with Apple support, nobody has mentioned the magical "Customer Care" department.  They're above AppleCare and are there to handle exceptionally crappy cases.  I had an iBook a few years ago and had an issue keep cropping up.  After I fixed it under warranty twice, it happened again out of warranty.  I called Customer Care and talked with them until they agreed to take it back and put the value of a brand-new iBook towards my upgrade to a PowerBook.

    It was a very good deal, and good customer service.



  • Ok , going back to the OP's original point, I cam accross this post the other day: http://cliffhacks.blogspot.com/2007/11/asus-eeepc-first-impressions-and-gpl.html . The last section of the post covers warranties and puts me under the impression (if the blogger is correct in his assumption) that Apple's warranty, as was stipulated to you, is not fully inforceable. Such that you or any computer repair facility is allowed to service the iMac on condition that in doing so you don't botch anything up.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Out of curiousity, how many people run Linux AV BTW?
     

    I have only seen Linux AVs in servers (mostly e-mail or file servers).



  • @Renan_S2 said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Out of curiousity, how many people run Linux AV BTW?
     

    I have only seen Linux AVs in servers (mostly e-mail or file servers).

     

    Would those be to protect the server, or just as a point of scan for it's throughput?

    My guess is the latter.



  •  @clively said:

    @el_oscuro said:

    Is Apply trying to alienate it's customers?

    Has anyone else had this type of experience with Apple?

    If this thread had appeared on a forum any near related to Apple, it would have either:

    a) Been deleted, or
    b) Have already reached 1000 posts from the Apple Acoylote's telling the OP that he is wrong and that Steve Jobs will one day rule the universe.

    Maybe someone should post a link to it on a fanboy site and see what happens...

    I think the firefox forums are frequented by the same people. 



  • @shadowman said:

     @clively said:

    @el_oscuro said:

    Is Apply trying to alienate it's customers?

    Has anyone else had this type of experience with Apple?

    If this thread had appeared on a forum any near related to Apple, it would have either:

    a) Been deleted, or
    b) Have already reached 1000 posts from the Apple Acoylote's telling the OP that he is wrong and that Steve Jobs will one day rule the universe.

    Maybe someone should post a link to it on a fanboy site and see what happens...

    I think the firefox forums are frequented by the same people. 

     

    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH FIREFOX!!!

    oh.. sorry... sort of a reflex...


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH FIREFOX!!!
    There Are No Memory Leaks®



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    Being that AV tools are written to look at patterns of known viri and search for similar patterns... it could chew through the empty virus definition files and waste CPU cycles...

    I don't think virus scanners have relied completely on definition files for years. They also look for suspicious behavior, to catch new viruses.



  • @Cap'n Steve said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:
    Being that AV tools are written to look at patterns of known viri and search for similar patterns... it could chew through the empty virus definition files and waste CPU cycles...

    I don't think virus scanners have relied completely on definition files for years. They also look for suspicious behavior, to catch new viruses.

     

    I would have to assume that the behavior would be based on known previous behaviors....

    Writing an AV tool for an OS that has no known viri would be pretty WTFish.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    My guess is the latter.
     

     

    Yep, the latter.         



  • @dlikhten said:

    Also FYI don't claim lawsuts are baseless...

    I didn't say *all* lawsuits are baseless. I said the one you were advocating was baseless.

     @dlikhten said:

    Dell had a lawsute recently. They would ship parts to their customers to have them replace the parts themselves (save on worker and shipping costs). This satisfied the warrenty but nobody could fix anything, people simply are not all good at repairing computer hardware. There was a class action lawsute and dell was forced to service the computers with techs that came to someone's house or after people shipped it to Dell.

    Dell claimed "Hey, we gave instructions on how to do it"

    Not the same thing as your advised lawsuit at all. Nowhere in that judgement was Dell ordered to "do the repairs only at the time the customer demands". They had two options: 1) do the repairs on-site, and 2) have the system shipped to them to repair. The on-site repair has been an option for ages (at an additional cost, of course). There was also nothing in there about Dell compensating their customers for lost time, whether that time was waiting for an on-site repairman to arrive or waiting for a system to be repaired and returned via courier service.

    Neither of those choices allows the customer to dictate exactly what timeframe Dell has in which to do the repair. Nor  was there anything in there about Dell compensating their customers for lost time, whether that time was waiting for an on-site repairman to arrive or waiting for a system to be repaired and returned via courier service. Both of which your post that I quoted above said Apple should be sued for not providing. Or did your post make so little sense that even you don't know what it said?




  • @dlikhten said:

    Apple also has the anti-virus approach of: It is imposible to write a virus for an apple. Go figure.

    Actually, I believe Symantec managed to create one. See http://macosx.com/forums/mac-os-x-server/297796-enterprise-anti-virus-solutions.html 

     It's called Anti-Virus 10 for Mac.  Then again, it might only be considered a trojan... That people actually paid for.  Talk about being bent over twice.

     

     



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Cap'n Steve said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:
    Being that AV tools are written to look at patterns of known viri and search for similar patterns... it could chew through the empty virus definition files and waste CPU cycles...

    I don't think virus scanners have relied completely on definition files for years. They also look for suspicious behavior, to catch new viruses.

     

    I would have to assume that the behavior would be based on known previous behaviors....

    Writing an AV tool for an OS that has no known viri would be pretty WTFish.

    Yeah, and I'm sure many of those behaviors are cross-platform. A self-modifying executable for example.

    If you really think that not a single OSX virus exists (which I really doubt), I'm sure I could study up on Applescript and whip one up for you. Unless Apple has magically fixed the "stupid users who run email attachments" flaw.



  • @Cap'n Steve said:

    If you really think that not a single OSX virus exists (which I really doubt)

    The first ever macosx virus is discovered at a rate of roughly two or three times a year.

    This is not because it's harder to create viruses for macosx. This is because once you've created a virus for windows, you really don't need to bother with any other platforms - your botnet is already large enough to take over the internet by force and proclaim yourself king, why would you need any more? 



  • @Cap'n Steve said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Cap'n Steve said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:
    Being that AV tools are written to look at patterns of known viri and search for similar patterns... it could chew through the empty virus definition files and waste CPU cycles...

    I don't think virus scanners have relied completely on definition files for years. They also look for suspicious behavior, to catch new viruses.

     

    I would have to assume that the behavior would be based on known previous behaviors....

    Writing an AV tool for an OS that has no known viri would be pretty WTFish.

    Yeah, and I'm sure many of those behaviors are cross-platform. A self-modifying executable for example.

    If you really think that not a single OSX virus exists (which I really doubt), I'm sure I could study up on Applescript and whip one up for you. Unless Apple has magically fixed the "stupid users who run email attachments" flaw.

    You are arguing with the wrong person. I don't care if MacOSx has a virus or not. But complaining Apple doesn't have an AV scanner is silly. Take it how you want.

    If you argue the opposite I will assume you would run AV on a Mac which would be pretty funny.

     



  • @Cap'n Steve said:

    Yeah, and I'm sure many of those behaviors are cross-platform. A self-modifying executable for example.

    If you really think that not a single OSX virus exists (which I really doubt), I'm sure I could study up on Applescript and whip one up for you. Unless Apple has magically fixed the "stupid users who run email attachments" flaw.

    Well, I guess there are viruses for OS X, but they are all the "whip one up for you" proof-of-concept type.  There really is not a single OS X virus spreading system-to-system through unpatched vulnerabilities, by email attachments, or any other means, really.  AV companies are quick to jump on the proof-of-concepts, though, and send out press releases about how their product protects you from them.

    But anyway, getting hit by the only "real" virus so far (OSX/Leap-A, an iChat worm) requires something like this:

    1. Go to a malicious website to download "latestpics.tgz" OR get prompted to accept the file from a fellow Mac user who has all of the following: the right version of iChat, you on their buddy list, the right version of OS X, and the worm installed (what are the odds?)
    2. Download the .tgz file
    3. Unarchive the .tgz file
    4. Open up the application (which has a custom JPEG icon, but is still clearly an app)
    5. Wait as the Terminal application opens (Terminal for a JPEG, eh?)
    6. Enter your admin credentials
    7. Enjoy!

    Seriously.  That's what you need to do to get the first OS X virus, which appeared 5 years in.

    Also, there are provisions for detecting modified executables built-in OS X.  They also have a rather nice system that prompts you on the first run of downloaded applications, too.  You get a dialog saying where-from and when it was downloaded, with an option to go to the originating page.  There are similar devices in place for mail.  At least it's an effort against the "stupid users" problem.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    But complaining Apple doesn't have an AV scanner is silly.

    Exactly.  Virus detection and removal is not the responsibility of the OS maker.  I wouldn't even want built-in AV software, considering how absolutely terrible it usually is.

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:


    If you argue the opposite I will assume you would run AV on a Mac which would be pretty funny.

    When I was getting my wife her new computer (MBP) for school, her mother (a gov't IT contractor) kept insisting that I needed to get some antivirus software for it.  People who have spent a lot of time in the Windows IT environment (and nearly no time in Unix-style systems) tend to have the absolute and eternal need for AV firmly established in their mind.



  • @djork said:

    Seriously.  That's what you need to do to get the first OS X virus, which appeared 5 years in.

    Sure that's what that specific virus requires, but in general a virus only needs this:

    1. User receives spam email with attachment.
    2. User runs attachment.

    Admin access and an automated exploit are not required. I'm just pointing out that antivirus on a Mac is not necessarily a waste of processing power.



  • @Cap'n Steve said:

    @djork said:
    Seriously.  That's what you need to do to get the first OS X virus, which appeared 5 years in.

    Admin access and an automated exploit are not required. I'm just pointing out that antivirus on a Mac is not necessarily a waste of processing power.

    I suppose, but seeing as there [i]are[/i] no other known viruses besides Leap/A for it to detect, wouldn't that make it a waste?



  • @djork said:

    @Cap'n Steve said:
    @djork said:
    Seriously.  That's what you need to do to get the first OS X virus, which appeared 5 years in.

    Admin access and an automated exploit are not required. I'm just pointing out that antivirus on a Mac is not necessarily a waste of processing power.

    I suppose, but seeing as there are no other known viruses besides Leap/A for it to detect, wouldn't that make it a waste?

     

    blah blah blah, there is no such thing as wasted cpu cycles, blah blah blah

    Some people will argue about anything just for the sake of argument.

    "The sky is blue!"

    "No way! I saw it turn white yesterday!"



  • Yeah, that's it. I didn't point out that how virus scanners can catch viruses that haven't been created yet, I just said 2 + 2 = 5.



  • Personally, my concern is that Apple are not keen on creating a user-serviceable consumer Macintosh.

    I have some Mac LCs here, and they're pretty cool -- almost entirely screwless and everything clips into place very securely. But nothing like that is sold any more. Consumer Macs are all nightmares. The mac mini has the advantage that at least it's not out of action if the screen goes, and you can choose a screen of your choice (the smaller iMac has a naff screen apparently). I'd like to see Apple bring out a consumer mini-tower (anyone remember those?) -- just big enough for a couple of drive slots, but one where you can easily take the case off and change parts yourself like a grown up. Odds are you can pull a spare DVD drive out of a cupboard faster than you can get a warranty.

    Sadly Apple reserve the right to own a tower to those wishing to pay a premium.



  • The first time I saw an iLamp, I laughed, and laughed, and laughed, until they took it away again.


  • ♿ (Parody)

    @dlikhten said:

    [MPS]'s just a troll... ignore him!

     

    Not exactly, but he absolutely, positively has to get in the last word.  And he clearly has too much time to hang around on the forums here.

    Response in 3...2...1...


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