Why is Everybody so clueless on the importance of Desktop Search to the Masses?
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I can't decide if this thread has become a troll's worst nightmare or wet dream. Are we really trolling the troll, or that just his troll strategy?
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Masses more search info. WARNING information overload.
01-25-2008 10:37 AM
Nellecan be easily ported to some other programming language - My very first search was a vax based one. Very primitive compared to the first VB one.
I could help by explaining in detail what the search is doing. Take a copy and shake it down. You'll find out on your own.01-25-2008 12:20 PM
djorkthat's TWO THOUSAND seconds searching the same giant file 100 times. - Sorry I have used non indexing search since the mid 80's on very busy time sharing computers. It wasn't slow then on very large files. Search is even faster with the powerful pc's and much smaller files.
Speed is never a problem for Desktop Search. Ever.01-25-2008 12:54 PM
MarcB
SSDS may be useful to you with your microscopic amount of data - A lifetimes reading is under 5 Gig. Anywhere near that total is a lot of textual data. People just don't have that much info that they have read to come anywhere close. Pictures and video take up way more space for a little amount of catalog text.
twiddling our thumbs waiting for not much of anything to happen - This search is fast very fast. I'll have to demonstrate more. Speed is the key to this search. Even with huge files. Speed and fun.You did a lot of work comming up with all those numbers. Speed of data delivery has never been a problem. Even when dealing with massive amounts of data like the pulp and paper mill.
Your math just doesn't match reality. Not even close.01-25-2008 5:33 PM
Tachyonport it to cobol.net as someone suggested - I've done a lot of cobol over the years. Start with the basic text search and then add picture, video and music after that. Not too difficult
01-25-2008 7:26 PM
rc_pincheyYou've just been slapped in the face by some maths - Somehow the math is wrong. Non indexing search hasn't been slow since the 80's. Much much faster now.
01-26-2008 1:15 AM
tster
rights to a full length motion picture - The way this is going you'll need rights for #2 and #3 at least.
01-26-2008 2:48 AM
tdittmarThe masses don't want to LEARN things - And neither do the techies. But the rewards are great. Once you see a few of the videos you'll be hooked.
convince people that your tool is great - This is the hardest group to convince. A great place to find out what the opposition thinks. Bad and good.
01-26-2008 7:04 AM
stolen_usernameThe first video nearly killed me - Yup it was bad very bad. Others will be encouraged to do video when they know Ole Spectate won't be laughing at their efforts. When people say your video is bad. Say Nope Spectate Swamp's video is bad. This is relatively good.
01-26-2008 7:09 AM
spenkthis is an application that suits you and your way of doing things - The code is very flexible. Make it do everything you want. You can do it.
01-26-2008 8:09 AM
PJH
Would anyone be interested in the suppliment that came with today's paper - Seems the guardian has the video bug. I'm sure they have missed a few of my pointers. I'll have to check it out. Got a link?
01-26-2008 8:12 AM
spenkauto focus keeps losing it - Yes it does. I usually turn the auto function off when videoing a changing screen. Bad very bad.
01-26-2008 8:53 AM
Tommie
my own implementation of your great piece of software - Don't let this group discourage you. There is no such thing as constructive criticism.
01-26-2008 9:07 AM
derula
Wow, your implementation is great! - Good going. I'm sure tommie appreciates the cudos.01-26-2008 9:26 AM
TommieI'm working on the Random stuff now - Don't mention my name if you try putting it up on sourceforge.net.
Are any of you respondents employed by sourceforge.net (come on fess up) What is a good alternative to them?01-26-2008 9:39 AM
derula
Do I sound like Swampy already - You are picking it up fast. Your talk makes sense to me. Move to the front of spectate swamp shack class.01-26-2008 10:35 AM
spenkHow does it search text files that haven't been added to your main text file - Easy. Just enter the name of the file to search at prompt #1. I use the merge option seldom. But I do use it.
Intuitive controls and interfaces are what make computers useful for the masses - Not really. Computers require far more knowledge now than ever. This Search eliminates the need to know.
01-26-2008 10:39 AM
derula
Sorry, I couldn't resist - I need somebody to do a screen capture to video of this whole thread. 7 to 10 clips of 1 to 2 minutes each.Just in case this thread goes the way of so many others. A video would make me feel more secure.
01-26-2008 11:19 AM
derula
My part of the image is open source - That's what I like people with sharing helpful attitudes.01-26-2008 11:20 AM
rc_pinchey
learn how to use the forum's "quote" facility - you learn how to use this search first. That's what the thread is about. ClueLessNess and search not thread quotes.01-26-2008 11:22 AM
Renan_S2I could probably throw something together - Probably won't cut it with this group. They want demos and stats and a million questions answered. Be careful for what you promise.
01-26-2008 11:27 AM
derula
I think he's exporting the whole thread to a text file - I'd rather have it on video. This forum has got me using the search to examine the code. control elements and code examples
Here is one that limits the random start point in a file to under 5 minutes. Long video take more time to start. More so near the end. I keep my videos to 2 minutes and under for that reason. Here is the code change it if you like.---------------
DoEvents
temp3 = InStr(mssg, Chr$(0)) '26 February 2004
video_length = Val(Left(mssg, temp3 - 1)) '26 February 2004
'23 March 2004 do random start point here
'28 March 2004 some files have bad size data ie demo76_pict6.mpg
If video_length > 50000000 Then '28 March 2004 ie the value is 19431083 ??
frmproj2.Caption = "(Bad Video length=" + CStr(video_length) + ")" '28 March 2004
new_delay_sec = 4
GoSub line_30300 '28 March 2004
video_length = 10000 'on a bad number set to 10 seconds long
End If '28 March 2004
If rand1 Then
rand_cnt1 = video_length - (hold_sec * 1000) '23 March 2004
rand_no1 = Int(rand_cnt1 * Rnd + 1) '23 March 2004
line_start_point = rand_no1 '23 March 2004
check_l_s_p: '27 March 2004
If line_start_point > 300000 Then
line_start_point = line_start_point - 300000
GoTo check_l_s_p
End If '27 March 2004
'27 March 2004 jumping to the middle of large files takes too line
'this limits that to the first 5 minutes and that is plenty.
End If '23 March 2004
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01-26-2008 11:37 AM
rc_pincheythis gives us a valuable insight into the life of Spectate Swamp - Yes. If politicians don't like me. I can't be all bad.
01-26-2008 12:40 PM
tdittmar
I don't see the screen saver on my desktop at all - Me and my Swampies do. Lets agree to disagree here.call the best Open Source project site crap again - Wasn't my idea to try putting the source there. What kind of open source that doesn't want the greatest program on the planet. Pure Crap. who are their competition. They must be doing well.
You'll have great Swamp parties - My parties were awsome. Kegs of beer and homemade pizza. We'll do it again at the end of the Swamp Shack camp.
My last one. The landlord got warned about the upcomming bash by the police. He had to come around the next morning to collect his shoes. Now that's a landlord.Bullshit. Printed stuff is needed all the time - I haven't printed anything in 4 or 5 years. The cartriges go bad before I use the. Do your printing at a friends house on those rare occasions.
Oh yeah, like you did that on purpose - there were a few areas where I did purposefully do things I knew would upset the goody two shoes the managers. Make them Gasp and suck all the air out of the room.
I thought you were using a background thread - in a round about way. I know how long the sub job is going to take (under my control) and tell the originating exe to wait until it is done. These background jobs can be controlled so they close out at end of file or at the first match. I give them a second or 2 extra for good measure. Hardly noticable.
You demand others to - You are right. Maybe I should be less demanding. Maybe not.
01-26-2008 12:41 PM
Tatiano
betcha u got lots of kiddie porn - Not a chance. Those sick-o's should be horse whipped. And get a damb big horse.
01-26-2008 1:20 PM
Tommie
It must be open source you know in order for me to use it - Open source is a powerful thing. Form a team and test this search out.01-26-2008 1:20 PM
ender
SpectateSwamp sound like some religious fanatics - With this search Ye will be saved.01-26-2008 1:23 PM
Tommie
can you help me a little with my port to .NET? - Anything I can do with video? I can explain and demonstrate the areas of code that may be of concern01-26-2008 1:24 PM
method1
to see if this nutter is still gibbering - It's all becomming more clear. Isn't it.
01-26-2008 1:43 PM
derula
You cannot feel sorry for someone with such a great beard, can you - People shouldn't be mean in these threads. It makes the more kindly souls feel bad. It's gotta be hard to sleep knowing that.01-26-2008 3:52 PM
method1
I found a freeware version of Unix/GNU linux's locate for windows - Great more desktop search open source info. I'd like to talk to an expert on it. There must be something that I may have missed.01-26-2008 4:09 PM
TDC
What a great loss for the people of Whitecourt, Alberta. - Between you and me. It was all very boring. I wanted to know who put him up to it? A current councilor wants me to video. But I'm waiting for a formal invite. I was invited to leave. I need an invite to return.
This desktop search allows you to weild a camera like a sword. More mighty than any pen.01-26-2008 4:55 PM
wooter
This metadata is also recognised by GDS and WDS - But they both can't run together. SSDS doesn't conflict with anything.
I get presentations on Exchange 2007 and I get movie clips on Exchange 2007 - Doesn't sound like you are haveing much fun. With all that exchange info.I sure would like to see some video of the options you have tested out. This can do everything you mentioned search wise.
all bike trail pictures he took, a few bike trail video's - Good going dad using video and pictures on computers. You obviously see the power of the combination.
01-26-2008 5:18 PM
derula
SSDS is big job opportunity - It could be nobody but you and I have a clue about desktop search. It's best to get in early. When do you want to start.01-26-2008 6:15 PM
upsidedowncreature
Smooth...will you be running classes at your shack - Maybe we should wait until spring. The Shack is a little chilly in winter.01-26-2008 6:19 PM
ChZEROHag
What program inserts this info? Do I have to learn how to operate that - There is a catalog feature to view the pictures and text and do the metadata. But I use notepad most of the time. This is an area that could be improved.01-26-2008 6:42 PM
Tommie
And btw derula. You should be doing SSales man - The both of your show incredible insight. You should team up. SSDS could use you both.01-26-2008 6:54 PM
upsidedowncreature
Do you think they'd like being called the masses - There are lots worse names. We'll only call they by flattering names at Spectate Swamp Shack.01-26-2008 7:08 PM
derula
I think I'd better start hiring now - I hope you get swamped with offers. Computer freedom with this search and video is the way of the future. You I and tommy and upsidedowncreature understand01-26-2008 7:21 PM
rc_pinchey
Us techs underestimate the power of SEARCH - I see you have read quite a bit. You know a lot more about this desktop search than I could have even wished for.01-26-2008 8:27 PM
boomzilla
Are we really trolling the troll - I don't know who is trolling who. This group are pretty stubborn. Way way worse than me. You keep comming back with more questions. That demand answers.Trying to explain search without these good questions would have been impossible. Thanks for all the wonderful questions.
I'm pretty well caught up for now.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Forget the fluff called an interface.
You keep talking about the common man. Well the common man wants an intuitive interface. Yet you say to forget the interface.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Can they start at a random point in the random video.
The point of this feature being ... ? Give me a time when the common man would need this feature.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
you had registered with SourceForge - Project declined. What the H. Is one of you behind this SourceForge refusal. Fess up.
Quoted for ... just because it's fucking awesome that he got outright rejected.
@SpectateSwamp said:
people taking my info without my permission is another form of Sharing
Say you were writing a screenplay and someone took it.
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ok I haven't read all of his last post, but I will say that if he had posted those as separate replies, we'd be up to 900 already.
Anyways, it's clear that SS (aka doug ... yes that's his name) doesn't get it, hasn't gotten it, and will never get it. Ones mind tends to wander while reading posts that wouldn't pass as third grade reading material. Maybe this is all a setup. Maybe SS is more than the world's best troll. I know I've spent a lot of time reading and posting in this thread, and have read and posted while away from work, which I don't normally do. Maybe this entire thread is meant to distract me from something. But what? What have I been giving up to spend time with this thread? Work? nah. My wife? nah. Paying attention to politics? maybe. What if SS isn't really Canadian (and is in fact from Kentucky as I previously guessed)? What if SS is designed simply to distract the American public from becoming educated about the upcoming American election? What if this thread is still going on 9 months from now. What if we've become so engrossed in beating SS down that we forget to go to the polls on November 4, deciding instead to spend all day on TDWTF forums?
SpectateSwamp you monster!
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I have a lot of questions about several topics, SpectateSwamp, so bear with me:
[b]Sourceforge[/b] - Did they really send you a rejection letter? That's kind of shitty of them to pick and choose what projects they like.
[b]Documentation[/b] - Do you have poor eyesight or some other problem reading English? You won't write a simple text file to explain how to use SSDS, you use videos instead. You won't read a help file either, you asked for a video to explain other search programs to you.
[b]Using an index[/b] - Desktop search is not different than Internet search, just think of the entire Internet as one big hard drive. You could search the entire drive one file at a time, but it's very slow. An index helps you to speed things up.
[b]Videos[/b] - I do a lot of videos. Until recently, I was trying to get a degree in video production. I'm a lot like you in that I video tape outdoors a lot. I have skiing movies and I'm actually the co-inventor of the camera-in-a-box, for protecting the camera during paintball games. A while ago there was a representative from Adobe in town and I went to an After Effects class he taught. After Effects is a very complicated and very powerful program, but after this one hour class I felt like I could do quite a bit with it. Do you really think a simple search program should require half a day of training?
[b]Cleaning up the code[/b] - I'd love to try and rewrite your search so that does the same thing with a better interface, but I still can't follow your code. Could you please type up a short list of what all the commands do?
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Sorry about that, here's a clean version (I hate you so much, Community Server):
@Cap'n Steve said:
I have a lot of questions about several topics, SpectateSwamp, so bear with me:
Sourceforge - Did they really send you a rejection letter? That's kind of shitty of them to pick and choose what projects they like.
Documentation - Do you have poor eyesight or some other problem reading English? You won't write a simple text file to explain how to use SSDS, you use videos instead. You won't read a help file either, you asked for a video to explain other search programs to you.
Using an index - Desktop search is not different than Internet search, just think of the entire Internet as one big hard drive. You could search the entire drive one file at a time, but it's very slow. An index helps you to speed things up.
Videos - I do a lot of videos. Until recently, I was trying to get a degree in video production. I'm a lot like you in that I video tape outdoors a lot. I have skiing movies and I'm actually the co-inventor of the camera-in-a-box, for protecting the camera during paintball games. A while ago there was a representative from Adobe in town and I went to an After Effects class he taught. After Effects is a very complicated and very powerful program, but after this one hour class I felt like I could do quite a bit with it. Do you really think a simple search program should require half a day of training?
Cleaning up the code - I'd love to try and rewrite your search so that does the same thing with a better interface, but I still can't follow your code. Could you please type up a short list of what all the commands do?
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Feel free to read, long post however,
@SpectateSwamp said:
Forget the fluff called an interface.
Without an interface, computers, their applications, etc are useless to the end users. Users need to be able to USE the program without having to learn whole new things. This is why computer interfaces haven't changed their functionality over the years other than getting more graphically appealing and overall getting easier to use.
Would you appreciate it if every time you upgraded your computer everything no longer worked the way you thought it once did?
@SpectateSwamp said:
Cutting and pasting 8 or 10 emails every week. Not a big deal at all.
How about those of us who get 100-1000+ emails a day from mailing lists and such who cannot set aside time to "Extract" stuff from the emails for your program?
@SpectateSwamp said:
Security is nuts in business. And a non issue for the common man.
Viruses, crackers, attackers, worms, trojans, spyware, exploits, Microsoft Windows Update, Anti-virus definitions, software updates, any of these ringing any bells?
@SpectateSwamp said:
Sorry I have used non indexing search since the mid 80's on very busy time sharing computers. It wasn't slow then on very large files. Search is even faster with the powerful pc's and much smaller files.
News: Files are not getting smaller, just the files YOU use are small doesn't mean that's the genereral consensus. Last time I checked, I had 9-12 GBytes of system logs on my servers (averaging 300 MBytes a day of plain text per log) -- For your standard computer user, they may not have huge text files, but they do have multi-gigabytes of multimedia (can you say over 250-500 GBytes nowadays?)
But on the count of "powerful pc's" - that's true, but the amount of data stored has also heavily escalated as I mentioned.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Somehow the math is wrong. Non indexing search hasn't been slow since the 80's. Much much faster now.
[b]Then provide us some solid figures and prove us wrong.[/b]
@SpectateSwamp said:
The code is very flexible. Make it do everything you want. You can do it.
Quit telling us to maintain your stuff, we have our own stuff to maintain.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Wasn't my idea to try putting the source there. What kind of open source that doesn't want the greatest program on the planet. Pure Crap. who are their competition. They must be doing well.
([i]Re: SourceForge[/i])Sourceforge doesn't really compete with any other project sites, since open-source stuff is well, open, in fact, I've seen a project hosted both on Sourceforge AND other project hosting sites, I'll cite you why they probably threw your project out:
1. You act as if your project is 100% complete - Sourceforge is designed for those ongoing projects that are [u]centrally maintained[/u] (i.e. a group maintain it instead of everybody having their own version which isn't the point of open-source)
2. You think open-source is a method so you don't have to do any work yourself.
3. You aren't seriously maintaining the code yourself, you have created one version and are pushing it on everyone.
4. You act as if open-source is an arena where everybody competes in, this is false, in most cases, open source is a collaberative effort. Linux itself was brought together by MANY different teams of developers working centrally, just some broke off and developed their own distros as the other distros didn't fill the requirements well, however even here, they still offer alot of the same features and software.@SpectateSwamp said:
I haven't printed anything in 4 or 5 years.
Doesn't mean you set the standards for the world.
@SpectateSwamp said:
You are right. Maybe I should be less demanding. Maybe not.
You are in no place to demand anything of us. If you want us to use the software, you should develop it to the specifications put forth by us. We won't use software we feel is inferior just because you say it's the best in the world. it has to be something we will want to use. This isn't a case of "can" we use it. Sure, we can, we know how, but will we? no.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Don't let this group discourage you. There is no such thing as constructive criticism.
I never thought of all these replies as critisism. Just curious souls wanting to know more about search. I think I know what the masss want. You convinced me. Therefore I'm starting the new search in VB.NET.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Don't mention my name if you try putting it up on sourceforge.net.
Why not?
@SpectateSwamp said:
Open source is a powerful thing. Form a team and test this search out.
I think there are some great programmers out here that are very willing to help out.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Anything I can do with video? I can
explain and demonstrate the areas of code that may be of concernI'd rather have some code samples in VB.NET. Maybe you can help me out searching and optimized version.
@SpectateSwamp said:
The both of your show incredible insight. You should team up. SSDS could use you both.
Thanks a lot.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
PJH
When are you going to learn to quote properly?
Would anyone be interested in the suppliment that came with today's paper - Seems the guardian has the video bug. I'm sure they have missed a few of my pointers. I'll have to check it out. Got a link?No I haven't got a link. It's a dead-tree guide. If they do have it on their website, I'm sure SSDS should be able to find it.
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@DigitalXeron said:
@SpectateSwamp said:
Wasn't my idea to try putting the source there. What kind of open source that doesn't want the greatest program on the planet. Pure Crap. who are their competition. They must be doing well.
(Re: SourceForge)Sourceforge doesn't really compete with any other project sites, since open-source stuff is well, open, in fact, I've seen a project hosted both on Sourceforge AND other project hosting sites, I'll cite you why they probably threw your project out:
1. You act as if your project is 100% complete - Sourceforge is designed for those ongoing projects that are centrally maintained (i.e. a group maintain it instead of everybody having their own version which isn't the point of open-source)
2. You think open-source is a method so you don't have to do any work yourself.
3. You aren't seriously maintaining the code yourself, you have created one version and are pushing it on everyone.
4. You act as if open-source is an arena where everybody competes in, this is false, in most cases, open source is a collaberative effort. Linux itself was brought together by MANY different teams of developers working centrally, just some broke off and developed their own distros as the other distros didn't fill the requirements well, however even here, they still offer alot of the same features and software.It would probably be informative (and entertaining) to see the project description he put in the submission for SSDS (not to mention the rejection message). I'll bet that a feed of sf rejected projects would be at least as entertaining as the sidebar. And probably more Real WTFs (excepting this thread, of course).
I think he should start a google code project for SSDS. The irony would be too funny. Make sure to register it as freshmeat, too. I'm sure all this needs is more exposure.
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960,000 chrs later - Not so ClueLess about Desktop Search anymore. (Me included)
I did a cut and paste of this tread text fo my thedaily_wtf.txt file (all 16 pages)
24,000 lines
960,000 characters.
Way too much to reread. I'm going to check some of those quotes attributed to me. That I can't remember.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
A lifetimes reading is under 5 Gig. Anywhere near that total is a lot of textual data. People just don't have that much info that they have read to come anywhere close. Pictures and video take up way more space for a little amount of catalog text.
OK, let's say we accept that no user will have more than 5 gig of documentation on their PC. Let's say we accept that all emails, documents, presentations, spreadsheets, in fact all textual or numerical data, can be stored in merged text files without losing any critical information. Let's also accept that metadata for pictures and video is relatively small, and can be added by the user at the time of the file's creation without major overhead.
If (IF) we accept all of that... there's STILL a major problem. What about music? I've got nearly 70 Gig of mp3s on my main machine- that's well over fifteen thousand individual tracks. EVERY ONE OF THESE, when bought, already contains a fair quantity of metadata in the form of id3 tags. The problem, of course, is that SSDS doesn't support id3 tags- in order to search my music collection, I will need to duplicate ALL of this information in a custom index file, which I will have to generate BY HAND.
So I will have to type in (as a bare minimum) the mp3 file's name, the track name, artist name, album name, track number, genre, and year. For example:
"F:/Music/Franz Ferdinand/Franz Ferdinand/07 This Fire.mp3", This Fire, Franz Ferdinand, Franz Ferdinand, 07, Rock, 2004.
And I will have to do that FIFTEEN THOUSAND TIMES.
The above example is 118 characters long. Even being generous and assuming the average is only 100 characters, that's still one and a half MEGABYTES of metadata that you expect me to type in BY HAND. I'm sorry, Swamp, but I'm just not going to be doing that.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
You are picking it up fast. Your talk makes sense to me. Move to the front of spectate swamp shack class.
I've always wondered why people would construct long sentences. They're difficult to read. Why are there commas anyway. Just place a fullstop. It gives so much more reading comfort. Just the right thing for the masses.
@SpectateSwamp said:
That's what I like people with sharing helpful attitudes.
There's no reason not to make anything open source. Look at Microsoft. They have Media Player. They have Internet Explorer. But all of that isn't needed by the masses. All they need is Spectate Swamp Desktop Search. Maybe we should write Open Letter to Microsoft. Tell them that they were wrong. And mabye they'll include SSDS in next Windows version. Instead of Windows Explorer.
@SpectateSwamp said:
People shouldn't be mean in these threads. It makes the more kindly souls feel bad. It's gotta be hard to sleep knowing that.
Yes, being mean is horseshit.
@SpectateSwamp said:
It could be nobody but you and I have a clue about desktop search. It's best to get in early. When do you want to start.
Tommie has a good clue, too. We've already started the VB.net port. I have to learn some VB.net. Then I'll join his great work. Then maybe we can make it work without operating system. Just start your PC and use Desktop Search. No Microsoft and closed source involved.
@SpectateSwamp said:
I hope you get swamped with offers.
I'm not concerned. There are many good developers in Germany. And with the power of Open Source. It won't take long until our first release.
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Do the interface LAST
@belgariontheking said:
Yet you say to forget the interface.
@SpectateSwamp said:
Can they start at a random point in the random video.
The point of this feature being ... ? Give me a time when the common man would need this feature.
Forget the interface for now. Cause I ain't got one. That's why.
Random is pure entertainment. The more video you got the better this feature works.
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Very no good - we try less hard.
@belgariontheking said:
Quoted for ... just because it's fucking awesome that he got outright rejected.
Like a couple hundred thousand projects too. If you are going to be bad be the worst.
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Clean up code - Later much later
@Cap'n Steve said:
Sorry about that, here's a clean version (I hate you so much, Community Server): @Cap'n Steve said:
I have a lot of questions about several topics, SpectateSwamp, so bear with me:
Sourceforge - Did they really send you a rejection letter? That's kind of shitty of them to pick and choose what projects they like.
Documentation - Do you have poor eyesight or some other problem reading English? You won't write a simple text file to explain how to use SSDS, you use videos instead. You won't read a help file either, you asked for a video to explain other search programs to you.
Using an index - Desktop search is not different than Internet search, just think of the entire Internet as one big hard drive. You could search the entire drive one file at a time, but it's very slow. An index helps you to speed things up.
Videos - I do a lot of videos. Until recently, I was trying to get a degree in video production. I'm a lot like you in that I video tape outdoors a lot. I have skiing movies and I'm actually the co-inventor of the camera-in-a-box, for protecting the camera during paintball games. A while ago there was a representative from Adobe in town and I went to an After Effects class he taught. After Effects is a very complicated and very powerful program, but after this one hour class I felt like I could do quite a bit with it. Do you really think a simple search program should require half a day of training?
Cleaning up the code - I'd love to try and rewrite your search so that does the same thing with a better interface, but I still can't follow your code. Could you please type up a short list of what all the commands do?Source forge The problem may have been with my application. Miss one step here or there. Who knows. It's not SSDS's first rejection. or last
Video. I just like video. I'd like to see some swampies out there with video. Demo searching the source.txt for logic. Maybe even searching this forum text for the search facts.
Index to speed things up. You won't be concerned with slow when using SSDS. It shows you your data up on the screen full context and hi-lited faster than the rest. They give you a list of files the data might be in or a garbled hash of the context. Speed is not an issue with Desktop Search. INdexed or Not
Doing lots of action video. That's great. Paintball with a cameraman on the run following the action. Very exciting. one of my video hints is :
move like a weasel, popping here and there changing the perspective. Over the shoulder down at the ground and high overhead. They all work. The large old cameras couldn't do that easily. With the camcorders being cheap. One needent worry about risking them to get a good clip. I walk out on beaver dams during spring trapping. If I go in. Good by camcorder. Hello new camcorder. The training time required would include complete reload of windows and backup. With acompaning video.
Cleaning up the code.
Use the search to examine the code. See what some of the various options do. If you don't have vb, find somebody that does. To build a new exe is relatively easy.
Don't worry too much about cleaning up the code to begin with. There are a few features that could be added. I got a list.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Speed is not an issue with Desktop Search. INdexed or Not
Wow, that's great. I mean, the intire industry must be wrong on this. While classic search applications (like Google) still think they need an index, they could just use SSDS instead. I'll write a letter to Google to tell them they were wrong. They should simply delete their complete index and just use SSDS instead, since there aren't any speed concerns with SSDS. Maybe Google will pay me lots of money for that discoverage. Thanks, mister Swamp, you saved the day once more!
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@rc_pinchey said:
The above example is 118 characters long. Even being generous and assuming the average is only 100 characters, that's still one and a half MEGABYTES of metadata that you expect me to type in BY HAND. I'm sorry, Swamp, but I'm just not going to be doing that.
But that's not necessary! All you have to do is write a program that extracts the id3 tags and make the index file for you! It's easy! For the masses! All you need is a camcorder!
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@SpectateSwamp said:
Random is pure entertainment. The more video you got the better this feature works.
Starting at a random point in a random video file is pure entertainment? Dammit, don't you have anything better to do?
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@Renan_S2 said:
Starting at a random point in a random video file is pure entertainment? Dammit, don't you have anything better to do?
Better than torturing people with trash like this. (I know many love him. I wonder why.)
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@SpectateSwamp said:
spenk
this is an application that suits you and your way of doing things - The code is very flexible. Make it do everything you want. You can do it.
The code is a mess, not flexible. Why would I bother trying to sort out the code when other solutions exist and are far superior?
@SpectateSwamp said:
spenk
How does it search text files that haven't been added to your main text file - Easy. Just enter the name of the file to search at prompt #1. I use the merge option seldom. But I do use it.
Intuitive controls and interfaces are what make computers useful for the masses - Not really. Computers require far more knowledge now than ever. This Search eliminates the need to know.
So I can find things as long as I know which file contains what I'm looking for? If I knew which file contained the info I wouldn't be searching - WDS, GDS etc. will search all files without the user knowing which files to look in.Improvements in user interfaces have made computers far easier to use and have made them usable by non-techies - your search requirs people to remember odd commands and syntax, be able to code in vb6, understand how to export various formats to text and remember where everything is anyway.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
I've done nearly 50 telco/cable system conversions. They all came as PLAIN text files. Every one of them. From all kinds of different OS types.
What exactly *IS* a telco/cable system conversion? What came as plain text files? The instructions on how to unplug the ethernet cable from the DSL modem and plug it into the cable modem?
Stop spewing fake jargon and just say exactly what you mean.
Or perhaps that's the problem. You know nothing and cover it up with important sounding garbage that fool only the ignorant.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
I'm pretty well caught up for now.
With what or whom? Not with anyone living in this world right now I'd say.
There's a fine line between genious and crazyness. But Doug, really c'mon man, you have past that line a very long time ago and you're far beyond help now.
I'm done feeding.
-
Swampies comming forward. Can't stop SSDS now.
01-27-2008 1:56 AM
DigitalXeron
How about those of us who get 100-1000+ emails a day - How difficult is it to export those emails. Does your email software allow for it? It should. Manual cut and paste isn't an option for you.any of these ringing any bells - I'm ready to do an OS re-install along with a reload of a current backup. 3 hrs to clean it all up. A good backup solves a lot of problems.
9-12 GBytes of system logs on my servers - I'm sure this search will search those files with no problem. In context or matching lines only.
they do have multi-gigabytes of multimedia - I do to. But little text is required to catalog them. That is what is searched. Not the video or music file.
Sure, we can, we know how, but will we? no. - Others are taking up the challenge. The world needs them and YOU.
01-27-2008 4:04 AM
Tommiethere are some great programmers out here that are very willing to help out - I know you are right. I may have explained the capabilities poorly. The few that are keen on search have a great starting off point.
Need to find a place to carry that discussion on at. This thread is bound to end sometime.01-27-2008 4:10 AM
PJH
I'm sure SSDS should be able to find it - SSDS do this. Show me the stats. Prove it. My swampies will start doing demo videos. showing you all. Their videos will be way way better than mine.01-27-2008 5:26 AM
boomzillaI think he should start a google code project for SSDS - Boom you do it. and let me know where it is. If they give you a ruff time. I'll back you up.
01-27-2008 7:04 AM
rc_pinchey
What about music? - The more mp3 files you got the better. You would be the ideal candidate to enhance these functions. The "gf" option will auto catalog all them. Those with metadata will have it in the catalog.
set it to run random. If you hit enter before the end of the thumbnail the whole song will play.
Please please try it out
once you have them cataloged and it shouldn't take more that a minute or 2
select 'rand' 'randa' 'thumb' 'tt8' then "ww" to start the random play
these values are kept in the control file. So stop the app anytime and restart by just hitting enter enter enter and the music plays.01-27-2008 7:06 AM
derula
There are many good developers in Germany. - A small program with some logic charts. That works. If you have problems. I'll explain as much as I can. Things to leave in. Those to leave out. etc.01-27-2008 8:06 AM
derula
the entire industry must be wrong on this - All are WRONG. They had internet search engines and tried to pass them off as Desktop Search. One has millions of times the amount of data of the other. Similar design would be silly.Maybe Google will pay me lots of money for that discoverage - Bring them up to Swamp Shack. Your commission is negotiable. They obviously don't know desktop search.
01-27-2008 8:08 AM
marinus
All you have to do is write a program that extracts the id3 tags - You are right. Just as I did with SSDS
HERE is the source.txt logic.
---------------------------------------
'24 june 2003
If InStr(1, UCase(Test1_str), ".MP3") <> 0 Then
FileFile = FreeFile
lresult = getshortpathname(Test1_str, sshortfile, Len(sshortfile))
temptemp = Left$(sshortfile, lresult)
Open temptemp For Binary Access Read As FileFile '08 july 2003
' Open temptemp For Binary As FileFile '08 july 2003 just in case protection is a problem
' Print "print one " + Test1_str '08 July 2003 test
Get FileFile, LOF(1) - 127, temptag
' Print "print onea " + temptag.header + temptag.songtitle '08 July 2003 test
If UCase(temptag.header) = "TAG" Then
temptemp = Trim(temptag.songtitle) + " " + Trim(temptag.artist) _
+ " " + Trim(temptag.album) + " " + Trim(temptag.year)
temptemp = temptemp + " " + Trim(temptag.comments) '+ " genre=" + temptag.genre
If Len(Trim(temptemp)) > 12 Then
Test1_str = temptemp
indates = ""
End If '25 june 2003 if there is not much in the header use directory info instead
' Print temptag.header
' Print "title " + temptag.songtitle '08 July 2003
' Print Test1_str
End If
Close FileFile
' Print "print two " + Test1_str '08 July 2003 test
End If '24 june 2003
--------------------------------------01-27-2008 9:39 AM
Renan_S2
Dammit, don't you have anything better to do - Random is the best I could do. Way more entertaining than NON Random.
01-27-2008 9:43 AM
derula
I know many love him. I wonder why - Cuz us swampies are the underdog.01-27-2008 11:10 AM
spenk
The code is a mess - But the results are the best. Context context. Not index file gibberish. Trash for data.will search all files without the user knowing which files to look in - Users shouldn't have to know which file to search in. But they should know where their files are. If you don't know which file to search. Then merge em. I know if I'm looking for email I sent to look in outmail.txt
Improvements in user interfaces - For sure. A better interface is needed. But this isn't really tuff stuff. They should be able to suffer by till that happens. There are swampies working on it right now. Even late at night.01-27-2008 12:56 PM
MarcB
What exactly *IS* a telco/cable system conversion? - A switch over in telephone and cable system billing suppliers.
What came as plain text files - Drop records, Customer records, billing files (for audits), workorder and transaction information, equipment records, toll records. for checking and some were co-ops that increased the complexity.
You know nothing and cover it up with important sounding garbage - I know desktop search. I wrote one. That works.01-27-2008 3:07 PM
Tommie
There's a fine line between genious and crazyness. - True your posts have been getting a little bizzar lately. Take a break. Come back later when you feel better.
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
I know desktop search. I wrote one. That works.
No you didnt, and no it doesn't.
-
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@SpectateSwamp said:
I know desktop search. I wrote one. That works.
No you didnt, and no it doesn't.
I love you, MasterPlanSoftware.
-
So where does your handle come from?
-
-
@jakkle said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@SpectateSwamp said:
I know desktop search. I wrote one. That works.
No you didnt, and no it doesn't.
I love you, MasterPlanSoftware.
Most. Disturbing. Post. Ever.
-
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
@belgariontheking said:
So where does your handle come from?
A dream.
Wow, just when I thought we had squeezed all the WTFiness out of him... you manage to get a little more...
Amazing.
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@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@jakkle said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@SpectateSwamp said:
I know desktop search. I wrote one. That works.
No you didnt, and no it doesn't.
I love you, MasterPlanSoftware.
Most. Disturbing. Post. Ever.
surely that goes to Spectate's original post?
im just being friendly.... ;P
-
Quoting restored...
@SpectateSwamp said:
@PJH said:
You don't even bother reading what you're replying to, do you?[1] In fact you clearly haven't (proof) read your reply either. Your reply doesn't make sense when taken alone, and it makes even less sense when you consider what my statement was.
- SSDS do this. Show me the stats. Prove it. My swampies will start doing demo videos. showing you all. Their videos will be way way better than mine.
I'm sure SSDS should be able to find [something on the guardian.co.uk website]And you didn't address my other request in that post - learn how to quote properly.
[1]Don't bother answering; it was a rhetorical question.
-
Can't stop SSDS now.
@jakkle said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@jakkle said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@SpectateSwamp said:
I know desktop search. I wrote one. That works.
No you didnt, and no it doesn't.
I love you, MasterPlanSoftware.
Most. Disturbing. Post. Ever.
surely that goes to Spectate's original post?
im just being friendly.... ;P
Yeah. That was pure mean saying that.
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
A switch over in telephone and cable system billing suppliers.
What came as plain text files - Drop records, Customer records, billing files (for audits), workorder and transaction information, equipment records, toll records. for checking and some were co-ops that increased the complexity.Ok. But why the conversion? They came in your all-time favorite (and apparently the only REAL file format) - plain text... Why all the work to convert them when they're already in the format you prefer? Why didn't you just concatenate (or as you say, merge) the files into one big chunk of text and give all the people using this system SSDS?
Or are you trying to cover up that you've basically now said that text isn't the solution to everything? Perhaps text works fine for you, but what about a lawyer? Would you deal with one who stored his documents of you case in the same file as all his other clients? Or an accountant who mixed your financial data in with everyone else's? I definitely wouldn't.
No matter how you dance around the issue and claim that one file is better, the truth remains that one file is NOT better in nearly every real-world situation you care to name, or imagine.
@SpectateSwamp said:
I know desktop search. I wrote one. That works.
No, you know how to scan a single text file for an arbitrary string, and pop up random videos at random time offsets. It works for you. It's useless to almost everyone else.
@SpectateSwamp said:
How many times do I have to tell you a lifetimes reading is less than 5 gig. Why archive and search text you have never read. Any talk of speed and computers is completely misleading. Get this straight. Computers are fast.
Why? Because some things you're legally required to keep around. How about your tax return paperwork? You're required to keep 10 years' worth, I believe. I might never refer back to anything but last year's return, but they've got to be kept around. Or perhaps the title and deed to my house? That's kind of important. I know it's not the Swamp Shack, but it's where I live, and I'd rather keep a copy of something that says that I'm allowed to live here handy.
Yes, computers are fast, but why should I waste my cpu time on your SSDS's O(n) algorithm when I could use my own O(1) filing methodology, or O(log n) regular desktop search engine?
But in any case, you didn't answer my question. It doesn't matter how much or how little data you have, you totally ignored the question and spewed more garbage. If you're confused by the big numbers, just divide them by 10, then. That reduces my 50gigs to 5gigs. So SSDS will take 253.0 seconds to scan, and Windows/Google search will take 0.5 seconds. Even with the index building overhead is factored in, SSDS still loses utterly and completely after only a few searches are run.
And don't go and say "I said LESS THAN 5gig". They're just some example numbers. You have yet to EVER respond to hard facts and numbers with anything but buzzwords and slogans.
Go ahead and explain why SSDS's O(n) algorithm is superior to most anyone else's O(log n). No jargon. No slogans. No buzzowrds. No "non-techies don't care or need big-O notation". Why is your O(n) superior to O(log n)?
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
@jakkle said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@jakkle said:
@MasterPlanSoftware said:
@SpectateSwamp said:
I know desktop search. I wrote one. That works.
No you didnt, and no it doesn't.
I love you, MasterPlanSoftware.
Most. Disturbing. Post. Ever.
surely that goes to Spectate's original post?
im just being friendly.... ;P
Yeah. That was pure mean saying that.
see, MPS??!!
even SS is backing me up - and we all know how accurate and truthful and down-to-earth he is, dont we?!
-
This thread and the Source Code gave me some pretty neat ideas,
So I prototyped something in PHP 4 thats waaaaayyy more advanced and can search telephone conversations that took place the last few years within a 100 mile radius.
Google, Apple and Microsoft already want to invest.
So you guys can talk what you want, but I'm probably rich!
-
Don't get Swamped - Get SSDS
@jakkle said:
even SS is backing me up - and we all know how accurate and truthful and down-to-earth he is, dont we?!
I don't get many chances to back anybody up on this topic.
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
select 'rand' 'randa' 'thumb' 'tt8' then "ww" to start the random play
Holy hell Swamp, how is that in ANY way better than just loading the files in media player, or itunes, or winamp, or any media application of my choice, and just clicking the "random" button?
Let's just compare it to media player.
Media player comes with my XP machine. SSDS needs to be downloaded and installed.
Media player just works, and will play all my mp3s with no issues. SSDS needs to "catalog" the id3 information and build an index.
Media player has a button to enable random play, which takes one mouse click. SSDS needs (at least) 19 keypresses plus 5 clicks to do the same, and I must memorise commands.
Media player plays the mp3s. SSDS just instructs the OS to open the files- which means, by default, IT WILL USE MEDIA PLAYER.
Your application is, as you surely must be starting to realise by now, absolute shite.
PS. You don't have any "Swampies", and no-one is working on any aspect of your application. Stick to what you know- ie, beard growth.
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
@jakkle said:
even SS is backing me up - and we all know how accurate and truthful and down-to-earth he is, dont we?!
I don't get many chances to back anybody up on this topic.
*in the tone of a kindly old woman*
that, swampy, is because you are in the wrong. im so so sorry
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
01-27-2008 8:08 AM
marinus
All you have to do is write a program that extracts the id3 tags - You are right. Just as I did with SSDSGreat if the mp3 file is using id3 version 1 tags, however more applications now use id3 version 2 which your application doesn't support.
@SpectateSwamp said:
01-27-2008 11:10 AM
spenk
The code is a mess - But the results are the best. Context context. Not index file gibberish. Trash for data.The results aren't the best though, WDS finds me the files I want and in virtually no time without any effort on my part - SSDS requires a lot of work to get anything found. What on earth does 'index file gibberish' even mean? Do you know what an index is and how that differs from what the user actually sees?
@SpectateSwamp said:
will search all files without the user knowing which files to look in - Users shouldn't have to know which file to search in. But they should know where their files are. If you don't know which file to search. Then merge em. I know if I'm looking for email I sent to look in outmail.txt
The whole point of searching is to find things when you are unsure of the location - even with an organised and structured directory tree there will be occasions when you just aren't sure where all files relating to a particular project / topic are, searching will allow me to locate them.
Simply having one huge file doesn't address the problem of keeping the original files in their original format in a location that suits me, there are many good reasons for keeping separate files as separate files - everybody else here keeps telling you this but you are ignoring them in favour of lumping everything into one file.
If I'm looking for e-mail I can search for it through outlook or direct from the start menu in vista - the same place I can search for everything else, without having to export my e-mails to text!
@SpectateSwamp said:
Improvements in user interfaces - For sure. A better interface is needed. But this isn't really tuff stuff. They should be able to suffer by till that happens. There are swampies working on it right now. Even late at night.
There are no swampies - live with this fact. Your interface sucks, 'select 'rand' 'randa' 'thumb' 'tt8' then "ww" to start the random play' is meaningless drivel to anyone who lives in the world outside of your head. People expect menus, buttons, drop down lists etc. to make the application easy, why should people suffer this abomination when better alternatives exist.
-
Swampies RULE
@rc_pinchey said:
Media player plays the mp3s. SSDS just instructs the OS to open the files
True. You have been picking things up well. Now try these options for music. Random X Random is great. This software solves all my data / file managment problems. In a desktop showdown. The swampies would RULE.
-
Don't get Swamped - Get SSDS
@jakkle said:
that, swampy, is because you are in the wrong. im so so sorry
But it just seems so right. Data portable, safe and viewable. SSDS makes it so.
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
@rc_pinchey said:
Media player plays the mp3s. SSDS just instructs the OS to open the files
True. You have been picking things up well. Now try these options for music. Random X Random is great. This software solves all my data / file managment problems. In a desktop showdown. The swampies would RULE.
But the media player that is installed with windows can do random playback (more commonly called 'shuffle') - what purpose does your app server in this regard when the functionality is already there?
How does it solve all your data / file management problems? Can it copy, move or delete files and directories? Does it do backups or provide auditing capabilities? Does it perform some form of version control or version comparison and change tracking? Does it do any security management?
If the answer to any of the above is no then it certainly doesn't solve all my data / file management problems.
You haven't managed to show us this app doing something as basic as locating a single file on a pc based on a single search term - the user needs to know which file contains the item (in which case notepad or any other text editor could be used to search the file) or every single potential file that could contain the item needs to be merged into one huge file and then this could be searched. Show ssds locating a word document or a text file or a particular source file based on a keyword or even something in it's contents without having to merge things and then you are at least proving your app can do the single most elementary thing a search program would be expected to do.
Fun feature are nice, but before fun features get added the fundamental ability to search needs to be implemented and a decent UI designed - as it stands now you have a 'single file search' tool and not a 'desktop search' tool.
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
@rc_pinchey said:
Media player plays the mp3s. SSDS just instructs the OS to open the files
True. You have been picking things up well. Now try these options for music. Random X Random is great. This software solves all my data / file managment problems. In a desktop showdown. The swampies would RULE.
Thats funny... I seem to recall on the Channel9 forums, you were called out and given a 'showdown'. You were unable to show any way that your 'search' is better than notepad's find function. Even though you had been arguing that your search could replace WDS GDS and all operating systems in general. You failed. Everyone told you that you failed. Everyone laughed at you. Just like here.
You responded with a video that showed no useful functionality, but instead meaningless commands and prompts. You claimed you were showing everyone to use SSDS... but no one could read anything on the video because you were actually dumb enough to video your monitor... People posted requests that you remake the video using proper screen capture software, and you refused.
You were given this 'showdown' that you always say you will win. But you lost. You have never even tried to overcome this.
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
@rc_pinchey said:
Media player plays the mp3s. SSDS just instructs the OS to open the files
True. You have been picking things up well. Now try these options for music. Random X Random is great. This software solves all my data / file managment problems. In a desktop showdown. The swampies would RULE.
You have entirely ignored everything I wrote, except for one line. That one line, you've quoted here, but then not addressed. At all.
The random media function is ALREADY AVAILABLE on a default Windows XP installation, and it is BETTER EXECUTED. Your application requires a complex sequence of commands, and then at the end of it all uses the same application to play the files as the user would have used in the first place. IT IS USELESS.
Surely you've noticed that in 16 pages of replies, not one person has said one positive thing about your software? Even Hitler had supporters...
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@rc_pinchey said:
Surely you've noticed that in 16 pages of replies, not one person has said one positive thing about your software?
Oh, I'll say something positive about it - it makes all us non-WTF programmers look that much better to the customers in comparison.
Hey, SS? This is what a demonstration video is supposed to look like. This is also what a desktop search program is supposed to look like. Now go whack your fingers with a clue-by-four until you understand.
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@SpectateSwamp said:
This metadata is also recognised by GDS and WDS - But they both can't run together.
It would be not really logical to use both at the same time, but if you really insist: yes they can.
@SpectateSwamp said:
SSDS doesn't conflict with anything.
No, only with people's working.
@SpectateSwamp said:
This can do everything you mentioned search wise.
Yes? As far as I know, if I type in "exchange" in one of your prompts, nothing will show up.
@SpectateSwamp said:
all bike trail pictures he took, a few bike trail video's - Good going dad using video and pictures on computers. You obviously see the power of the combination.
Yes, but not with SSDS.
-
@SpectateSwamp said:
How about those of us who get 100-1000+ emails a day - How difficult is it to export those emails. Does your email software allow for it? It should. Manual cut and paste isn't an option for you.
Even more: most email software allows the Common Man to *search* in all their emails. Install GDS or WDS and you can *search* the emails which are in your email software, without exporting them.
@SpectateSwamp said:
they do have multi-gigabytes of multimedia - I do to. But little text is required to catalog them. That is what is searched. Not the video or music file.
But, the Common Man only has multi-gigabytes of multimedia, nót the text that comes with it. So how do these multi-gigabytes of multimedia get cataloged then?
@SpectateSwamp said:
I know desktop search. I wrote one.
The general consensus is that you wrote a string searcher for individual ASCII files, which is capable interpreting a playlist of video files or music files.
