An exciting startup "job" offer

cartman82

http://startups.stackexchange.com/questions/5507/what-is-fair-compensation-when-asked-to-join-a-start-up

It's not a paid gig and I'd be doing all coding; outsourcing coding where possible; and managing that outsourcing in my spare time after work. The compensation proposed is that I will have the chance to buy equity at the same rate as investors and the potential for a exec position if it takes off.

So basically, he's being offered to work for free, vying for a chance to eventually buy some of their oh so valuable stock, on the off chance their crappy startup survives.

Yeah.

Maciejasjmj

            One word: run...
            – 
                Denis de Bernardy
            yesterday

Yeah.

Filed under: ctrl-c ctrl-v from the comment field, formatting preserved for discoposterity

accalia

@cartman82 said:

So basically, he's being offered to work for free, ~~vying for a chance to eventually buy some of their oh so valuable stock, on the off chance their crappy startup survives.~~without a chance of any further compensation because the startup will fold

We all know that version's more likely.

it'll probably fold having spent all its money on an outside contractor at exorbitant rates. a contractor that will be found, on investigation, to be owned or controlled by the former CEO...

Boner

Why so cynical? Sometimes an amazing offer is just an amazing offer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsYoeoEE3ww

accalia

@Boner said:

Sometimes an amazing offer is just an amazing offer.

but more often it's a shyster trying to get something for free and then shank you so you don't complain.

loose

Either you are an investor or you are not.
As an investor, you are expected to cough up dough (or the equivalent) for shares, you should get a Directorship (UK) or President (USA) or a Senior Manager (UK), Director(USA) with shares. You will have the responsibility, and the benefits of that. And you have an incentive to succeed.

If you are not then you are an employee: you get a salary with PAYE (UK) and ...whatever the equivalent is in the USA these days. Your T's & C's will be at a minimum standard. The salary you can negotiate, but should be close to market rate even if they are a start up. They will offer peanuts and unless you are a monkey, don't take it - I've been there.

If you must do this with all the responsibility etc, without the pay because it's a bunch of mates or someone you are connected with (somehow). Then any software you write IS YOURS! It might be their idea, but you wrote it (there could be some legal "sticky" stuff over this) because of what @accalia said about failed start ups being a "legal" way of practical embezzlement of funds and assets.

If the venture folds, you can do other stuff with it. If it succeeds then it becomes your bargaining chip to be used as equity for shares and position.

A quote from somewhere "...if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't..." nod to @accalia (again )

boomzilla

That guy needs to stay out of his spam folder.

ijij

@loose said:

whatever the equivalent is in the USA these days

Don't know about anybody else, but I'm paid in $1-off coupons, bus tokens, left-over pizza in the kitchen and an health~~care~~insurance voucher.

Should ask for a raise?

Signed,
These bus tokens are getting heavy.

loose

don't you have a black market for those sort of things - seeing as they are so endemic over ther?

ijij

I feel certain, societal, pressures that dissuade me from identifying as a black market-eer.

Plus, the pizza is pretty good, and has poor shelf-life.

Filed under: Why am I gaining weight - oh, yeah, I work for peanuts.

accalia

@ijij said:

Should ask for a raise?

yes. you should absolutely be getting the stale bagels as well. they're a great supliment to the pizza and make decent improvised weapons in a pinch.

loose

@accalia said:

getting the stale bagels

Not to mention any flat soda sloshing around to wash it all down

ijij

@accalia said:

you should absolutely be getting the stale bagels as well.

The DBA's get those as part of their bonus package.

Besides, they're always cut into quarters and eighths and get disgusting flavored- cream cheese smeared all over them. Blech.

accalia

@ijij said:

Besides, they're always cut into quarters and eighths

oh. one of those offices. i bet they don't even have the decency to provide proper butterknives with the bagels, making you all use those wimpy plastic ones that bend as soon as you look at them.

Steve_The_Cynic

@accalia said:

@ijij said:
Besides, they're always cut into quarters and eighths

oh. one of those offices. i bet they don't even have the decency to provide proper butterknives with the bagels, making you all use those wimpy plastic ones that bend as soon as you look at them.

Oh, those are the superior ones. You have to watch out for the ones that bend when you remember in the middle of the night that you're going to have to use them tomorrow...

loose

Better the ones that bend, rather than the ones that snap into three pieces. Where:

Piece 1 is still in your hand, but has inexplicable grown a yellow flashing light to draw attention to itself.
Piece 3 is embedded in what ever it was you were trying cut into, and is now on the floor between your feet waving a big flag. If you were lucky, it went straight there. If not it rolled down the front of your clothes leaving a dayglow trail.
Piece 2. Well piece 2 is as small as it can be whilst still being large enough to see at 50 paces. It is travelling at near relativistic speeds in the direction you would least want it too.

CoyneTheDup

@accalia said:

@cartman82 said:
So basically, he's being offered to work for free, ~~vying for a chance to eventually buy some of their oh so valuable stock, on the off chance their crappy startup survives.without a chance of any further compensation because the startup will fold~~vying for a chance to sink his money into their crappy stock so he can lose his money along with all the other investors.

We all know that version's more likely.

it'll probably fold having spent all its money on an outside contractor at exorbitant rates. a contractor that will be found, on investigation, to be owned or controlled by the former CEO...

Sounds to me like he's being paid negative in the long run, because even if the mess floats, all he gets is dividends. This is, without a doubt, the worst employment offer I've ever heard.

Steve_The_Cynic

@loose said:

- Piece 2. Well piece 2 is as small as it can be whilst still being large enough to see at 50 paces. It is travelling at near relativistic speeds in the direction you would least want it too.

Ow. That's gotta hurt!

accalia

@loose said:

Piece 2. Well piece 2 is as small as it can be whilst still being large enough to see at 50 paces. It is travelling at near relativistic speeds in the direction you would least want it too.

Straight for the gonads?!

OUCH!

Scarlet_Manuka

@ijij said:

Should ask for a raise?

Bottle caps?
Yes, I was just reading the Fallout thread, why do you ask?

wft

@cartman82 said:

So basically, he's being offered to work for free, vying for a chance to eventually buy some of their oh so valuable stock, on the off chance their crappy startup survives.

wft

I've got a better idea.

How about somebody pays me a hefty sum (2M Euros or Pound Sterling), in exchange for a chance that I code a web project in an unspecified future? Who knows. The project might be so awesome it would earn them a fortune! Maybe I would be able to sell it to some Faceboogle for billions! And I may shell a few millions to them as a gratitude gesture!

Otherwise, of course, they get nothing. Gold-plated, precious nothing! I don't have another nothing, and I give it away!

Wouldn't it be awesome?