Sharp OSA, the idea makes me cry.
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<FONT color=#810081>http://www.sharpusa.com/products/business/copiers/0,2576,,00.html</FONT>
http://www.sharpusa.com/files/workwithoutlimits.swf
I screamed when I first saw this ad on TV. Maybe I don't understand, why can't this guy browse the internet at his desk and then send a "print job" to the "printer?" I can't wait until I get this feature request, "Can I access it from the printer?"
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Great! Another crappy obsolete interface!
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I bet some marketing guy got a promotion for this - for thinking outside the box...
I like how, after they guy types something in, the spot always immediately zooms into this fancy copy-scanner-as-3D-screen thingy instead of letting you see the real process. Looks like the didn't have any idea either what that feature could be good for and thus had to cover it with shiny special effects.
Now if they'd build a 3D screen like this on the other hand...
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@PSWorx said:
Now if they'd build a 3D screen like this on the other hand...
You know, a 3D projector in the shape of a copier -- big plastic cube, plate on top, lid that you can lift and position behind the scene -- that might actually be what the things look like, if they go commercial.
Well.
Maybe.
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I haven't looked at the price tag of this thing, but it's probably cheaper to just drop a few computers on pedestals around the company to achieve the same effect, but you know better and cheaper.
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Do more than you ever thought possible and in less time. Sharp¹s versatile MFPs keep your workgroup moving ahead of the competition. With powerful copying, printing, scanning, and faxing capabilities these multi-functioning workhorses will streamline workflow-and become the center of productivity.
Translation: We can copy, print, fax and scan. Two-sided. Like every other copier. BUT LOOK AT OUR PRETTY BUZZWORDS!!!- Scan2 technology increases productivity by scanning two-sided documents in a single pass
- Sharp's data security kits (DSK) lead the industry in data protection
- My Sharp allows businesses access to training tools to maximize MFP investments and
increase productivity
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As a sysadmin, it is my considered opinion that everything relating to printers sucks utterly.
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@asuffield said:
As a sysadmin, it is my considered opinion that everything relating to printers sucks utterly.
I couldn't agree more. My newest argument with my printer was trying to convince it that 8.5x11 from a different office was the same as 8.5x11 from this office, and I really didn't need to put in new paper especially for it.
I also think it changes its settings at night when no one is here. Today, it was printing my stuff out a different place than it ever has before, and it suddenly refuses to email me my scans.
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You expect that guy to operate a computer? That's the other thing he hires nice young women for.
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The best part is the 4:3 ad runs set in the frame of a 16:9 monitor on that second link. Who cares what the ad was for, the awful presentation was humorous enough.
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@Jetts said:
@asuffield said:
As a sysadmin, it is my considered opinion that everything relating to printers sucks utterly.
I couldn't agree more. My newest argument with my printer was trying to convince it that 8.5x11 from a different office was the same as 8.5x11 from this office, and I really didn't need to put in new paper especially for it.
I also think it changes its settings at night when no one is here. Today, it was printing my stuff out a different place than it ever has before, and it suddenly refuses to email me my scans.
Tell me about it. Our all-in-one printer/scanner/copier/coffee maker/Zamboni decides approximately every 48 hours to forget that it has a finishing unit.
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@IHateEverybody said:
The best part is the 4:3 ad runs set in the frame of a 16:9 monitor on that second link. Who cares what the ad was for, the awful presentation was humorous enough.
The real WTF is that they didn't print out each of the frames and put them on a wooden table, then take pictures of each of them and string them back together to make the video.
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Theres a saying:
Universal things are good for nothing.
Nothing could be more true. I can understand putting together a scanner, a copier and a printer. If you take any two of this set it automatically contains the remaining item's working elements so not make an independently usable function out of it would be a WTF... Anything else is stupid. For browsing the net you have a computer.
Another aspect is that the fancy features are a waste of money. Seeing average person using a computer in a non-IT(but tech related) enterprise I can safely say nobody will EVER be using anything that is even remotely more complicated that stuffing their documents in the feeder and pressing either copy or scan button or pressing the familiar print button in Word.
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Google maps on the freaking office photocopier?
You know, I got stuff to do. The last thing I need to do, as I race to get that worthless printout just before my timewasting meeting, is stand behind some doofus who is asking the PHOTOCOPIER where to get good steak.
The other thing they don't show you is that it has an LCD touch screen, and when you want to type something, like "steak," it's actually a pain in the ass on those LCDs. We have a similar jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none printer and there are times when you have to type on its console. It's painful. It's a good thing the guy's not a "v-e-g-e-t-a-r-i-a-n" because he'd be there all day typing and searching maps while the rest of the office is screaming "WTF!? Get your print job and go! Don't you have real WORK to do?"
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@Patricktamu said:
<font color="#810081">http://www.sharpusa.com/products/business/copiers/0,2576,,00.html</font>
TRWTF is the source code of that page:
<!------state topNav--------->
<script language="javascript">
/* #Menu ch */
<!--
// added this code to fix firefox issue
if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf("Firefox")!=-1)
{
menu_top=122;
} else {
menu_top=113;
}
menu_item_height=30;
menu_subitem_height=30;
menu_divs=11;
menu_moving=false;
ns4=(document.layers)?true:false;
ie4=(document.all)?true:false;
ie5=(document.all&&document.getElementById)?true:false;
ns6=(!document.all&&document.getElementById)?true:false;
... snip a couple of pages more ...
temp=navigator.appVersion.split('MSIE');
ieVer=parseInt(temp[1]);
if (ieVer >= 6 || ns6) {
document.write('<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>');
} else {
document.write('<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>');
}
//-->
</script>
<noscript>
document.writeln(''); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 2;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv2">');
document.writeln(menuItem(0,'15 - 20 ppm Copier &
MFP','/products/business/copiers/0,2576,2-0,00.html'));
document.writeln('<p></p></div>'); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 3;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv3">');
document.writeln(menuItem(0,'21 - 40 ppm Copier &
MFP','/products/business/copiers/0,2576,3-0,00.html'));
document.writeln('<p></p></div>'); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 4;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv4">');
document.writeln(menuItem(0,'41 - 69 ppm Copier &
MFP','/products/business/copiers/0,2576,4-0,00.html'));
document.writeln('<p></p></div>'); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 5;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv5">');
document.writeln(menuItem(0,'70+ ppm Copier &
MFP','/products/business/copiers/0,2576,5-0,00.html'));
document.writeln('<p></p></div>'); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 6;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv6">'); document.writeln(menuItem(0,'DM Series','/products/business/copiers/0,2576,6-0,00.html')); document.writeln('<p></p></div>'); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 7;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv7">'); document.writeln(menuItem(0,'Color','/products/business/copiers/0,2576,7-0,00.html')); document.writeln('<p></p></div>'); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 8;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv8">'); document.writeln(menuItem(0,'Printers','/products/business/copiers/0,2576,8-0,00.html')); document.writeln('<p></p></div>'); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 9;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv9">'); document.writeln(menuItemWide_css(0,'Sharp Open Systems<br> Architecture','/products/business/copiers/0,2576,9-0,00.html')); document.writeln('<p></p></div>'); document.writeln('<div style="z-index: 10;" class="menuDiv" id="menuDiv10">'); document.writeln(menuItem(0,'<font color="#990000">Document Applications</font>','/products/applications/home/1,2688,,00.html'));Now what's that all about then?
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So it's a computer with an integrated printer. Figures.
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@Sunstorm said:
So it's a computer with an integrated printer.
Running an operating system that makes Windows look like a work of pure genius. Printer software is stunningly bad compared to the kind of things we usually see on the desktop.
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@asuffield said:
@Sunstorm said:
So it's a computer with an integrated printer.
Running an operating system that makes Windows look like a work of pure genius. Printer software is stunningly bad compared to the kind of things we usually see on the desktop.
Some of the Ricoh (and therefore Savin) printers are running NetBSD, so they don't all run crap. As for what's running on top of it, I can't really say.
Now the construction quality, well, nobody's perfect. (Where did this loose piece come from?!?)
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@Sharp said:
Discover how to work without limits
I work without limits. I'm unemployed.
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@asuffield said:
As a sysadmin, it is my considered opinion that everything relating to printers sucks utterly.
I had two separate printers on my old PC at university and sometimes when I tried to use them, they would manage to forget the format/context of the data they were printing. They still had the data, in fact they would refuse to lose the data even after repeatedly being reset and powered down. Instead they would just sit there and print out what they had for me. In ASCII. There was pages and pages of it. I remember having to sit there feeding the same piece of paper into the stupid thing over and over, waiting for whatever buffer it was to empty so I could print out my dissertation >_<
In another last minute coursework situation I selected 30 or so java files in explorer, right clicked and selected "Print", I realized my mistake around the time the 4th instance of Eclipse started to launch. The lab's 200Mhz NT workstation promptly died and refused to reboot, much to my chagrin since there were another 3 or 4 people queuing behind me to use it.
I hate printing.
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Now you guys know how I felt when computer graphics went to FOUR colors!
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As DaveK said, TRWTF is that site. With JavaScript off, it looks like this:
I'm used to having pages with broken menus that won't open unless I turn scripts on. But this one is barely readable! It looks like they have about 4 lines of code stacked up in one part, and what's with that white square?
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Ok genius. Here's the problem, you're given $100 and told to do the following:
Print 8.5 X 11 inch page documents at 30 pages per minute full 600 dpi color, network the thing so it can talk to PC's, Macs, Unix, Linux, and mainframes, and remember Win 95, 98, 2K, XP, and Vista, plus Mac OS 9 (and X), and don't forget Novell, put a browser on it so you can access it from your desktop for configuration, plus support whatever front panel happens to be connected. Don't ever crash or make a mistake, blue screens are not allowed and no more printing of all those ASCII text pages, and be powered up 100% of the time.
Do some research and you realize the printer needs to consume data streams in any of 5 or more languages (PCL5, PCL5C, PCL6, PCLXL, PostScript, PDF, XPS, ...), interprets those languages, renders all the RGB graphics into CMYK (not an easy mathematical task), scale and rotate the page graphics, color corrects, and deliver 128 MB of data per page (64 MB of data per second) to a spinning mirror so that the image can be laid down on a drum and transferred to a piece of paper. Oh, and don't forget about error handling in case you get any one of 1,063 error codes from the engine controller that sits on the other side of yet another communications interface from you. These errors being generated from any number of mechanical mishaps that may occur between when the page goes from the top of the paper tray to the output tray.
Wait a second, 100 bucks, fully manufactured? That's about enough for a puny 533 MHz processor, an ethernet chip set, 64 MB of DRAM, and if I'm lucky I can fit an ASIC on that PCB somewhere. What about software royalties for my high level OS, what about my hard drive that I need for VM, what about, what about, what about... Sorry, can't afford that. Make do.
So, to summarize, render 128MB pages at 64 MB/second in 64 MB total RAM (including OS, applications, networking, etc), forget about a hard drive, forget about a Windows OS, forget about an NVIDIA chipset, and never, ever crash.
So, when was the last time your desktop app did that?
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@adc said:
[how printers work]
Okay, so building a printer isn't that easy and we should have a little more respect before we demand perfection. Is what you're saying?
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@dhromed said:
@adc said:
[how printers work]
Okay, so building a printer isn't that easy and we should have a little more respect before we demand perfection. Is what you're saying?
The funny thing is, I doubt a $100 printer would actually do all that described by adc.The $100 printer is more likely to be an empty case with a moving print head - replacement ink cartridges costing more than the printer itself.
Or have printer prices crashed that dramatically in the last couple of years ?
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@adc said:
Ok genius. Here's the problem, you're given $100 and told to do the following:
Print 8.5 X 11 inch page documents at 30 pages per minute full 600 dpi color, network the thing so it can talk to PC's, Macs, Unix, Linux, and mainframes, and remember Win 95, 98, 2K, XP, and Vista, plus Mac OS 9 (and X), and don't forget Novell, put a browser on it so you can access it from your desktop for configuration, plus support whatever front panel happens to be connected. Don't ever crash or make a mistake, blue screens are not allowed and no more printing of all those ASCII text pages, and be powered up 100% of the time.
Do some research and you realize the printer needs to consume data streams in any of 5 or more languages (PCL5, PCL5C, PCL6, PCLXL, PostScript, PDF, XPS, ...), interprets those languages, renders all the RGB graphics into CMYK (not an easy mathematical task), scale and rotate the page graphics, color corrects, and deliver 128 MB of data per page (64 MB of data per second) to a spinning mirror so that the image can be laid down on a drum and transferred to a piece of paper. Oh, and don't forget about error handling in case you get any one of 1,063 error codes from the engine controller that sits on the other side of yet another communications interface from you. These errors being generated from any number of mechanical mishaps that may occur between when the page goes from the top of the paper tray to the output tray.
Wait a second, 100 bucks, fully manufactured? That's about enough for a puny 533 MHz processor, an ethernet chip set, 64 MB of DRAM, and if I'm lucky I can fit an ASIC on that PCB somewhere. What about software royalties for my high level OS, what about my hard drive that I need for VM, what about, what about, what about... Sorry, can't afford that. Make do.
So, to summarize, render 128MB pages at 64 MB/second in 64 MB total RAM (including OS, applications, networking, etc), forget about a hard drive, forget about a Windows OS, forget about an NVIDIA chipset, and never, ever crash.
And now let's look at what all the printers on the market actually do, rather than what we'd all like them to do:
Consume at most one kind of input, which will be a non-compliant version of one of the common languages with numerous rendering defects that require special workaround in the driver, and which sometimes just don't work at all and generate garbage on the output. Most likely use an outdated version of one of the languages, rather than the current one.
Crash the firmware about once every hundred pages, so that you have to yank the power cable to get it working again, and maybe putz around with the panel buttons a bit.
Occasionally suck in a sheet of paper, tie it in a knot around the roller, and then slam the print head into the whole mess so that you have to replace the whole damn thing.
Error handling? Why, when we can just fail?
Support anything other than PCs running Windows manufactured in the past six months? Not a chance. Support more than one version of Windows? No, and probably not even the current version. Also, "support" consists of disclaiming responsibility for any and all faults, rather than doing anything about them. Fix bugs in printer drivers? Hah!
Colour correction? Only on the pre-selected set of sample images. For anything else, you're lucky if it doesn't mix up blue and green. 30 pages per minute and 600dpi? One or the other, not both on the same sheet. Actual performance at any kind of decent resolution is more like 3 pages per minute.
Running a commercial OS that has most of the bugs already shaken out of it, like vxworks? Even running the same OS on all the printers you manufacture? Why, when you can have an intern write a new one for each new model of printer? You get more interesting bugs that way, anyway.
And I haven't even started on the crappy end-user inkjets yet. That's all just the more expensive models aimed at business users.
Printers suck great big hairy dead goats.
Just the other day I discovered that one of our high-resolution colour laser printers (price tag: thousands) was shipped with the configuration setting "When there is no paper in the tray, silently discard the print job rather than asking for paper" enabled by default. Why does it even HAVE a setting to do that? Who could possibly want this behaviour?
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@asuffield said:
Just the other day I discovered that one of our high-resolution colour laser printers (price tag: thousands) was shipped with the configuration setting "When there is no paper in the tray, silently discard the print job rather than asking for paper" enabled by default. Why does it even HAVE a setting to do that? Who could possibly want this behaviour?
Because you'd rather not have it print 15 copies of the same document when someone finally puts paper in it, when the lusers kept sending the same document to it assuming that'll make it work. I do agree, though, that it should not be the default.
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@Random832 said:
@asuffield said:
Just the other day I discovered that one of our high-resolution colour laser printers (price tag: thousands) was shipped with the configuration setting "When there is no paper in the tray, silently discard the print job rather than asking for paper" enabled by default. Why does it even HAVE a setting to do that? Who could possibly want this behaviour?
Because you'd rather not have it print 15 copies of the same document when someone finally puts paper in it, when the lusers kept sending the same document to it assuming that'll make it work. I do agree, though, that it should not be the default.I can understand holding the job until somebody hits the button on the panel to let it through. I am rather less impressed by a printer which, when out of paper, just SITS there and doesn't report an error, and in fact doesn't do anything at all. Short of actually opening the paper tray and looking, there's no way to tell why it isn't printing.
In this particular case I had extra fun because the paper sensor is defective, and can't see the last 30 or 40 sheets in the tray.
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@asuffield said:
@Random832 said:
@asuffield said:
Just the other day I discovered that one of our high-resolution colour laser printers (price tag: thousands) was shipped with the configuration setting "When there is no paper in the tray, silently discard the print job rather than asking for paper" enabled by default. Why does it even HAVE a setting to do that? Who could possibly want this behaviour?
Because you'd rather not have it print 15 copies of the same document when someone finally puts paper in it, when the lusers kept sending the same document to it assuming that'll make it work. I do agree, though, that it should not be the default.I can understand holding the job until somebody hits the button on the panel to let it through. I am rather less impressed by a printer which, when out of paper, just SITS there and doesn't report an error, and in fact doesn't do anything at all. Short of actually opening the paper tray and looking, there's no way to tell why it isn't printing.
In this particular case I had extra fun because the paper sensor is defective, and can't see the last 30 or 40 sheets in the tray.
The printer sitting at my desk doesn't work unless the paper tray is between a quarter and half full. Any less and it thinks it has no paper. Any more and it sucks up two and three pages a a time. But hey, at least it's better than the color laser my boss has that won't print anything if any of the toners are out. He waited two days for a new magenta cartridge and couldn't print black and white documents in the meantime because, presumably, HP's printer division is full of crooks.
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You are right, $100 printers don't do those things, but printers with $100 controllers inside them do. Most inkjet printers have minimal intelligence in the printer itself and are controlled by the PC. Lasers have a mixture of host-based control and units with intelligent controllers or motherboards inside them.
The printer industry is just like any other, there are companies that do their job very well and understand what's required and pay to do the job right, and there are other companies that are just looking to capitalize on the supplies revenue (toner and ink) but are selling their products into the market at a loss in order to gain market share. Most of those companies are under huge price pressure and looking at how to eliminate costs in every way possible. Inevitably, there will be crappy products put out as a result.
In response dhromed's question, I was responding to asuffield's comparison of printer software to what he normally sees on the desktop. FMPOV, comparing desktop apps to printers is like comparing bicycles to cameras. There is just much more involved in printing a page than what an application typically goes through to perform it's functions. That being said, there are some really sophisticated apps out there. The more sophisticated the application, the more likely that you're going to find problems with it - crashes, hangs, etc. Unfortunately for the printer manufacturer, their cheapest printers have to do some really sophisticated things and that is why there are all the problems out there with printers. IMO, if there was the kind of financial reward for good printer development that there is for good game development (by way of comparison with sophisticated apps), there would be a lot better printers being shipped. But, what happens is that people migrate to the cheapest printer and usually the end result is one gets what they pay for.
I'm not trying to make excuses for crappy printers because I've gone through a bunch myself, although I have one right now that I really like and also happened to be a bargain.
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@adc said:
The printer industry is just like any other, there are companies that do their job very well and understand what's required and pay to do the job right, and there are other companies that are just looking to capitalize on the supplies revenue (toner and ink) but are selling their products into the market at a loss in order to gain market share.
I've tried mid-range high-capacity lasers (ie, £1k-£10k bracket) from all the major manufacturers and several of the minor ones, and every single one of them has been unbelievably crap. If there are good printers out there somewhere, they've been hidden.
