Coldfusion: Whats your Opinion?

WillB

Hey Everyone,

I figured I'd bring up a debate over Coldfusion, since I haven't seen an article about it.

Wikipedia describes Coldfusion briefly as:

"An application server and software development framework used for the development of computer software in general, and dynamic web sites in particular."

I use Coldfusion daily, and it has come to be a Love-Hate relationship. However, it seems to do the job I want it to, even if it takes a little pushing!

So....what do you all think???

Oscar_L

Haven't used it, but haven't heard anything good about it, either. Afraid that's the extent of my knowledge.

lpope187

Apparently you missed the "ColdFusion Flame War" that happened a few months ago. Good times. 200+ posts/flames in a matter of hours. With the site changes, it doesn't seem accessible anymore unless I'm missing something.

I personally haven't used ColdFusion, but it doesn't look like something I'd go out of my way to learn. I'd personally rather get more expertise in ASP.Net and then move on to java or RoR.

kirchhoff

This is a dumb question but... what makes someone say. Hmmm, I need a database driven web application. I know! I'll use Coldfusion.

That has never, ever occured to me. Why tie yourself down to a non-free platform which has little support among webhosts when there are tons of other easy to use frameworks that do the same thing out there. Do you use it at work or something?

dhromed

It's a programming language with a syntax based on generalized markup so that it... looks like HTML.

Me and my cricket bat would like to meet the person who came up with that.

kiriran

I've used CF for the past 2 years at work and it's not that bad. I know it has a bad name (some people even claim it's the VB for the web) because there is a lot of bad CF code and easy to learn like VB. But like in any other language you can write good code in CF as well if you follow good practices.
I'd choose [CF/Python+Django/RoR/etc.] any day over java or .net for your standard CRUD website. Why? Because it makes it easy to build solid web applications in a short time. On the other hand for large projects I'd choose java or .net over CF because there is much more knowledge/resource available and chances are greater that there is some open source library you can use.

So I think it's "The right tools for the job" and CF has it's place

dhromed

@kiriran said:

I've used CF for the past 2 years at work and it's not that bad. I know it has a bad name (some people even claim it's the VB for the web) because there is a lot of bad CF code and easy to learn like VB. But like in any other language you can write good code in CF as well if you follow good practices.
I'd choose [CF/Python+Django/RoR/etc.] any day over java or .net for your standard CRUD website. Why? Because it makes it easy to build solid web applications in a short time. On the other hand for large projects I'd choose java or .net over CF because there is much more knowledge/resource available and chances are greater that there is some open source library you can use.
So I think it's "The right tools for the job" and CF has it's place

I'd hesitate to put CF into a list containing the more complete languages Python and Ruby.

CF does not as much have a place as it is entirely replacable.

kirchhoff

@kiriran said:

...bad name (some people even claim it's the VB for the web)

I thought the VB of the net was VB. (Alternatively PHP)

:3

WillB

Yes, I use it at work..

No, i agree I wouldn't pay for it myself either. But I have to admit, for what I am doing it works pretty good.

If we get problems with it, normally we just use Flex or Java.

It also depends on what framework you use: (i.e. Fusebox, Mach II, etc..)

WillB

@dhromed said:

It's a programming language with a syntax based on generalized markup so that it... looks like HTML.
Me and my cricket bat would like to meet the person who came up with that.

Do you hate it just because it looks like HTML...

What are your reasons?

kiriran

@kirchhoff said:

@kiriran said:
...bad name (some people even claim it's the VB for the web)
I thought the VB of the net was VB. (Alternatively PHP)
:3

Oops my fault. It should be "the new VB for the web" ^^

dhromed

@WillB said:

@dhromed said:
It's a programming language with a syntax based on generalized markup so that it... looks like HTML.
Me and my cricket bat would like to meet the person who came up with that.

Do you hate it just because it looks like HTML...
What are your reasons?

Oh, sorry, I thought it was clear. :)

Find me a syntax as ill-suited and cumbersome to use for programming as the HTML syntax. HTML is an information syntax, and not designed to carry instructions. Would you enjoy programming using nothing but strings in the array shorthand?

WillB

@dhromed said:

@WillB said:
@dhromed said:
It's a programming language with a syntax based on generalized markup so that it... looks like HTML.
Me and my cricket bat would like to meet the person who came up with that.

Do you hate it just because it looks like HTML...
What are your reasons?
Oh, sorry, I thought it was clear. :)
Find me a syntax as ill-suited and cumbersome to use for programming as the HTML syntax. HTML is an information syntax, and not designed to carry instructions. Would you enjoy programming using nothing but strings in the array shorthand?

Good point....

sootzoo

@dhromed said:

Find me a syntax as ill-suited and cumbersome to use for programming as the HTML syntax.

Perhaps [url="http://www.o-xml.org/"]XML[/url]? (I know, that's cheating, but still...)

dhromed

@sootzoo said:

@dhromed said:
Find me a syntax as ill-suited and cumbersome to use for programming as the HTML syntax.
Perhaps [url="http://www.o-xml.org/"]XML[/url]? (I know, that's cheating, but still...)

Oh dear.

You win.

cookie

(PS. HTML syntax == XML syntax == ML syntax)

djork

Two things. First:

<cfif (some condition)>
  do stuff
<cfelse>
  do other stuff
</cfif>

Worst structure ever. It hurts my brain every time I think about it.

Secondly: why would anybody PAY MONEY for Coldfusion? It's $1299 for the standard edition!

viraptor

@dhromed said:

(PS. HTML syntax == XML syntax == ML syntax)

You've gone too far....

HTML syntax == XML syntax == * Markup Language syntax

ML is something completely different :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ML_programming_language

WillB

@djork said:

why would anybody PAY MONEY for Coldfusion? It's $1299 for the standard edition!

If the company is paying for it...then why does it matter?

djork

@WillB said:

@djork said:
why would anybody PAY MONEY for Coldfusion? It's $1299 for the standard edition!

If the company is paying for it...then why does it matter?

You have to question the sanity of your company paying for it, as well. That's $1299 for a single server license. The "enterprise" version is $5000+

Pap

@lpope187 said:

Apparently you missed the "ColdFusion Flame War" that happened a few months ago. Good times. 200+ posts/flames in a matter of hours. With the site changes, it doesn't seem accessible anymore unless I'm missing something.
I personally haven't used ColdFusion, but it doesn't look like something I'd go out of my way to learn. I'd personally rather get more expertise in ASP.Net and then move on to java or RoR.

The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

WillB

Okay seriously,

after looking back at the previous thread....that was just hilarous.

Someday people will realize that programming languages are just tools for us to use to complete the tasks we have been given. Then just maybe, people will stop treating some of the languages like they are worth nothing, because each language seems to be able to "be the best" depending on the situation.

Its going to be even funnier when 30 years from now, when the languages have all matured and newer ones are coming out....

I concede the point. Coldfusion is disliked by just as many people who like it.

dhromed

I know. It's just code. :) It's just a programming language. Nothing to get you panties up in a bunch about. However, this:

@WillB said:

each language seems to be able to "be the best" depending on the situation.

Is just plain incorrect. Some languages are 100% superseded by others.

@WillB said:

I concede the point. Coldfusion is disliked by just as many people who like it.

That 50-50 rule doesn't make something a decent language or tool, though. To compare, Windows ME was crap in roughly 50% of the cases, and for the other 50%, it worked fine. That means Windows ME was crap. Something that's crap 50% of the time is crap 100% of its existence. Something that's a perfect tool 10% of the time is actually real crappy tool.

To be lifted from Craptitude, I'd say something needs to be crap less than 20% of the time. Maybe 30%.

I've never used "crap" this many times before. Hurray.

WillB

I can see your point...

But let me bring up another point:

"42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."
lol j/p

Whiskey_Tango_Foxtro

@WillB said:

42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Oh, come on!!!!!!!

You obviously made that up. Everyone knows it's 98%.

WillB

@Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Over. said:

You obviously made that up. Everyone knows it's 98%.

I was hoping someone would catch that.

RayS

@WillB said:

"42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot."

And the other 57.3% are made up by marketing in advance.