I just found a legitimate use-case for infiniscroll, WTF
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Yes, you heard. I just saw an actual use-case for infinite scrolling that didn't entirely suck. AND IT WAS IN A FORUM. WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.
So, imagine the scenario... user is on page 2 of a thread, there is a page 3 but they don't realise it and just reply to the last comment on page 2, not realising there is a bunch more stuff (including the point already having been addressed)
Infinite scroll would actually prevent that situation and minor embarrassment.
I was shocked too, people. Something infiniscroll does better than pagination. It had to happen eventually.
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So, imagine the scenario... user is on page 2 of a thread, there is a page 3 but they don't realise it and just reply to the last comment on page 2, not realising there is a bunch more stuff (including the point already having been addressed)
You mean, unlike in the "Likes" thread, where people always reply directly to a post when they reach it by scrolling down, without realising there is way more content below that just hasn't yet scrolled into view?
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Infinite scroll would actually prevent that situation and minor embarrassment.
imo, having the page numbers list be a floating element that stays in view (like the green bar) would fix the problem better than infiniscroll.
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Put the reply button close to the page selector.
Problem solved.
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Put the reply button close to the page selector.
Problem solved.
I love your optimism that that would solve the problem :P
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Infinite scrolling that keeps the concept of pages intact (i.e. indicates page breaks as you scroll etc) would be my preferred route, with the option to turn the infinite scrolling off obv for those that dislike it.
multiple pages were problematic but playing the NEW PAGE GET game was fun on occasion.
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I love your optimism that that would solve the problem :P
Well, if it doesn’t, you can try to put the “Next page” link directly over the Reply button...
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No. You're doing it wrong. What you need is a toast notification
Hey, it looks like there's another page of discussion over there.
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You mean, unlike in the "Likes" thread, where people always reply directly to a post when they reach it by scrolling down, without realising there is way more content below that just hasn't yet scrolled into view?
No, the Likes thread is special, whereupon people reply while not caring about the number of posts below theirs.
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You mean, unlike in the "Likes" thread, where people always reply directly to a post when they reach it by scrolling down, without realising there is way more content below that just hasn't yet scrolled into view?
You mean, in the Likes thread there is generally way to much content below to read it all and reply then?
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You mean, in the Likes thread there is generally way to much content below to read it all and reply then?
I usually at least check the replies box if there is one. That's actually a super useful feature.
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I usually at least check the replies box if there is one. That's actually a super useful feature.
Not in the likes or question thread where an answer doesn't always indicate a sensible reply.
- in the likes thread more posts, double posts and just giving retarded answers to people catching up is part of the silly goal to reach a silly arbitrary post number the frist.
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Not in the likes or question thread where an answer doesn't always indicate a sensible reply.
It depends on the post. Sometimes actual conversations happen there.
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It depends on the post. Sometimes actual conversations happen there.
Exactly, but it doesn't guarantee that the next reply will still be part of that.
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Exactly, but it doesn't guarantee that the next reply will still be part of that.
Yep, but then I know that my brilliant insight is also original.
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Yep, but then I know that my brilliant insight is also original.
Ofcourse! I don't have that advantage. I can only BELGIUM.
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Ofcourse! I don't have that advantage. I can only BELGIUM.
Look, I'm an American, not a pansified piece of eurotrash. Your decadent language doesn't work on me.
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Hey, damn 'murican, who thinks he owns the world. I BELGIUM just like the way I like to BELGIUM.
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So, imagine the scenario... user is on page 2 of a thread, there is a page 3 but they don't realise it and just reply to the last comment on page 2, not realising there is a bunch more stuff (including the point already having been addressed)
So your use case is fuckwit users?
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>antiquarian:
So your use case is fuckwit users?Is there any other kind?
That question goes a long way toward explaining modern UI design.
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So your use case is fuckwit users?
Yes. They keep fucking breeding and making more of them.
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Yes. They keep fucking breeding and making more of them.
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
I tried to reply as a linked topic but the dropdown for category was empty.
Days since last Discourse bug: null
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Seeing that there are more posts never stops me from making a reply that is most likely redundant.
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>boomzilla:
Sometimes actual conversations happen there.Exactly, but it doesn't guarantee that the next reply will still be part of that.
That is not guaranteed anywhere on TDWTF.
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That is not guaranteed anywhere on TDWTF.
Still, the look ahead feature is one place Discourse has CS beat.
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Still, the look ahead feature is one place Discourse has CS beat.
necros because i was away all weekend and just now catching up.
i don't use the look ahead because sometimes the comments in the look ahead were shaped by other comments that aren't in that direct look ahead reply chain, in which case those comments either barely make sense or can get read completely out of complete context. Which is a barrier to discourse. I want to have read as much as the commenter might have read when they posted their comment.
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I'm just quickly scanning usually to see if they already made my point. If it's not obvious I go ahead and post. Those 2^ badges don't grant themselves.
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They do... @PJH doesn't have to actually do any work to grant them now...
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They do... @PJH doesn't have to actually do any work to grant them now...
Beyond sorting out the queries, I never did have to do any work to get the 2^n badges granted.
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Beyond sorting out the queries, I never did have to do any work to get the 2^n badges granted.
That's my point. The badges don't grant themselves - but neither does any human.
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Are you angling for WHOOSH or pedantry?
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Infiniscroll is obviously better than pagination once properly implemented.
As far as I know, browsers do not yet support such a proper implementation.(No, I'm not sure how the scrollbar will behave in a proper implementation, but I'll know it when I see it)
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Pendantry.
Just what I'd expect someone to say who didn't get it. Unless it was Jeff where we'd learn that those badges are not conducive to civilized discourse.
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Of course it's quite clear - you're making your point because you can and because you're angling for the other badges. Gamification is a side effect - and a not unreasonable or unattainable one - and it's not about being civilised. It's about self expression and if that happens to be gamified in a way you don't dislike, bonus.
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There's nothing wrong with infiniscroll in forum software.
There is everything wrong with how Discourse implements infiniscroll in forum software.
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I have seen multiple forums now implement infinite scrolling. Every single implementation in a forum sucks ass.
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That's not infiniscroll's fault, it's literally 100% implementation failure.
More accurately, infiniscroll implementors try to nuke the concept of paging. You can't do that. Paging is a thing for a reason.
But you can change how paging is displayed, and using optimistic loading make it a nearly seamless experience with pretty good performance and location saving.
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WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
The best forums I have used display a message when you try to post that there have been new posts and if you would like to read them. I think IPB does this.
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The fact that I have seen 100% implementation failure does make you wonder though if implementation in a forum is fundamentally a bad idea.
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It isn't, at all. See my edit above for some more details.
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The best forums I have used display a message when you try to post that there have been new posts and if you would like to read them. I think IPB does this.
IPB does, XenForo does. Haven't checked vB since it started being shite (after the XF people left to go make XF). Open source ones, not quite so much.
I know SMF will at least tell you when you try to post that there have been new ones. But it's not all spiffy and nice about it, it just takes you to the post editor with 'new posts have arrived, you should review them' or something. Don't see the warning enough to remember its wording.
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Then how come there continue to be no decent implementations of it in a forum? The fact that we still have 100% implementation failure - even after it has been a thing for literally years now - should be telling, yes?
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Because people like Jeff are driving the bus, and you have a bunch of people trying to copy off of him.
If you're using a fundamentally flawed implementation as your base, and you don't understand how things work on a fundamental level, you end up with the shit you have today.
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True, true.
I would like to see a non-failure of the concept because the idea does seem cool to me - but every implementation I have seen or thought about sucks ass. I would like to be proved wrong but I am not the person to do that.
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But you can change how paging is displayed, and using optimistic loading make it a nearly seamless experience with pretty good performance and location saving.
If you mean something like how Reddit Enhancement Suite loads the next page when you get to the bottom of the current one, I have to disagree because the instant you click on any link and don't open it in a new tab, everything is ruined forever.
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It's very mathy, namely it depends on factors:
- # of posts in topic - Configured default max post count per page - Configured user max post count per page (overrides the above) - An option that allows 'overflow' up to a certain percent if the topic is larger than the configured post count - Not using stupid amounts of json heavy weight polling (polling required, but it should be tiny size requests) - Prefetching rows as your scrolling, modifying prefetch based on scroll speed - Intelligent handling of forward/backward scroll prefetch - Correctly handling dom loading/unloading, you can leave more on the page than discourse does pretty safely, but you do need to quietly unload it as you get beyond a certain point
and several other factors. I've been doing some toy concepts for an IRC bot with web display I've been working on.
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No, that's pretty much nothing like what I'm talking about. I firmly believe that TOPIC LISTS should be true pages, but the topic content can sanely implement infiniscroll with stuff I mentioned previously.
You can give an option to make topic lists be infiniscroll, but behind the scenes, everything is a page. It's just how you load it in that truly matters.