Non-WTF job listings?

KattMan

Some of these I really have to wonder how stringently they are checked out. I offer for your perusal:

Fool.com is hiring a a Micrsoft CRM and/or Sharepoint Guru

• Ms. Pacman skills a plus
• Great Salary, Paid Relocation
• Vacation Policy: Take What You Need
• DC Metro - Alexandria, VA

Ok I can give the title a pass considering the name of the company, but reading this I have to ask Ms. Pacman? Take as much vacation as you need? Paid relocation?

Relocate me to the Bahamas since I will be starting my vacation immediatly for an indefiniate period of time (I have to because honestly I can't play Ms. Pacman well enough)

Seriously, where is the truth of this ad and what are they really looking for?

Pap

Also on the page you link to:

Proficiency in Foosball and/or pop-a-shot

It seems they are completely serious: http://www.fool.com/jobs/jobapplication.aspx?id=343&did=50
Check out the questions at the bottom.

pauluskc

Totally legit. The Motley Fool is a company that does Stock analysis and other stuff and is rather well respected in the financial world and successful. So their corporate culture isn't all enterprised out. It's definitely a legit company.

Try going to their website and seeing the positions that they have open. Good stuff - but you probably have to be good to get it too.

KattMan

The problem here isn't the company, but the ad, on this site.

We even recently had a four day story about a company that probably hired on its Magic the Gathering deck building skills. Now we see a company looking for Ms. Pacman skills?

A company wants us to research them and customize a resume and cover letter to fit them instead of using a cookie cutter attitude. Why should we not expect them to research thier target market and customize the ad to fit? I know, it costs money to write ads, well it takes time to write cover letters and resumes for each company also.

apapadimoulis

[quote user="KattMan"]Why should we not expect them to research thier target market and customize the ad to fit[/quote]

What makes you think they didn't? Obviously, they're looking for fun-loving people with a sense of humor and who have a good work-play blance. You don't seem to be this type of person that they're looking for.

I work from my home-office now, but if I do have to get offices (ugh), I can assure we'd have a 60" HDTV (I mean, HD-Monitor -- can't write off TVs now) with an XBOX-360, a cotton candy machine, and proably a pinball machine. And when I hired another person to join the team, he'd better damn well like Halo. Heck, one of my "hiring tests" would be to sit him in the room w/ the pinball machine and invite him to play while I take an important call.

Why shouldn't my job ad reflect this type of environment?

KattMan

I'm not saying your ad shouldn't, but this one says almost nothing about the actual skills involved. The only thing we get is Sharepoint, ok but what languages are they looking for? Go ahead and say fun loving, video games on premises, etc. But this ad doesn't say anything about skills needed.

I'll reiterate, I'm not talking down the company, only questioning the ad itself. There is a fine line they are on, have they crossed it? Will this ad bring more slackers to thier door then not? Hopefully not from the sites it is posted on, but if they use this same ad also on sites like google (which honestly would not surprise me) there would be a flood of people signing up to take 6 months of vacation and play video games for the other six months and still expect a paycheck.

I am sure you can't take as much vacation as you want, there are limits, the ad gives the wrong impression here.

VGR

I don't know how good or bad their work environment is, but I smirked
when I read the ad. Have a sense of humor, people. I'm
pretty sure they aren't accepting or rejecting applicants based on
their best Ms. Pac-Man score. And really, if my co-workers want
to discuss classic videogames once in a while at the water cooler, I
can't say I would mind.

Kyanar

[quote user="KattMan"]I'm not saying your ad shouldn't, but this one says almost nothing about the actual skills involved. The only thing we get is Sharepoint, ok but what languages are they looking for? Go ahead and say fun loving, video games on premises, etc. But this ad doesn't say anything about skills needed.[/quote]

We have a few like this here. They don't need a programming language at all, they're looking for an admin for their CMS installations.

apapadimoulis

[quote user="KattMan"]But this ad doesn't say anything about skills needed.[/quote]

This was in the job ad (when you clicked on to it):

Mastery of Microsoft Sharepoint Portal Server, Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services
Experience with developing and implementing WebParts (C#)
Familiarity with SQL Server
Familiarity with FrontPage 2003
Familiarity with InfoPath
Sharepoint 2007 experience a plus
Microsoft CRM experience a plus
Microsoft Great Plains experience a plus
Ability to work directly with internal customers/project owners
Strong communication skills
Web, e-mail, and Internet savvy
Agile and iterative methodologies experience a plus
Proficiency in Foosball and/or pop-a-shot

I'm wondering, are you talking about the small ad (i.e. the four bullet point thing you pasted) or the full job ad?

The purpose of the small ad is to impore readers to click and learn more about the job opportunity. They're trying to find passive job seekers, not active ones, so it's more of a sell to them than anything else.

If I was employed and lived in that area, I'd have a hard time NOT clicking on it to learn more ...

shadowman

Believe it or not, the vacation policy is not unique. There was an article in the Washington Post recently (I searched and can't find a link on their website, but I don't remember how long ago) about some local companies who offer such benefits. Vacation time for these firms was completely flexible -- people could arrange to take what they needed. As a case in point they cited someone who worked out an arrangement to take off 4 months to bike the country or something like that, although he received a reduced salary during most of that time. And this was only after working at the company for less than one year.

apapadimoulis

Isn't that closer to how it works in Europe?

One of the biggest WTF's about being an employee (at least, in every company I've ever worked for) is the lack of an upaid vacation policy. You're only "allowed" the two or three weeks of paid vacation, and that's that. I remember chattting with a coworker a while back who was telling me how exicted he was to have earned, after four years of service, the ability to take a six-week (2 wks paid / 4wks unpaid) vaction. It took a lot of begging and pleading though, but he finally got it.

Is this the norm? Just doesn't sit right with me ...

mrsticks1982

[quote user="Alex Papadimoulis"]

Isn't that closer to how it works in Europe?

One of the biggest WTF's about being an employee (at least, in every company I've ever worked for) is the lack of an upaid vacation policy. You're only "allowed" the two or three weeks of paid vacation, and that's that. I remember chattting with a coworker a while back who was telling me how exicted he was to have earned, after four years of service, the ability to take a six-week (2 wks paid / 4wks unpaid) vaction. It took a lot of begging and pleading though, but he finally got it.

Is this the norm? Just doesn't sit right with me ...

[/quote]

It seems as though american employers want you to love your job but don't want to change the normal way as to how the business operates. I, for example, don't mind taking a day or two unpaid because as long as I get my work done and everyone is happy why not. I completed everything that was required and I am not charging them anything, but I am happier since I feel rested and ready to tackle the next big project. Why do corporations feel as though containment equals happiness?

xrT

[quote user="VGR"]I don't know how good or bad their work environment is, but I smirked when I read the ad. Have a sense of humor, people. I'm pretty sure they aren't accepting or rejecting applicants based on their best Ms. Pac-Man score. And really, if my co-workers want to discuss classic videogames once in a while at the water cooler, I can't say I would mind.
[/quote]
I agree and if ever I saw that ad, apparently no job is displayed here and I'm not looking for any at the moment anyway, but if I saw that one and I am looking for a job, I'll definitely be interested to see what's in store for me there.

I always want to work with someone who has other interest similar to mine other than programming (you know something else to talk about or do on those very long days). Now imagine if the entire team shares that interest, that would be a healthy environment, IMO.

RayS

[quote user="Alex Papadimoulis"]

Isn't that closer to how it works in Europe?

One
of the biggest WTF's about being an employee (at least, in every
company I've ever worked for) is the lack of an upaid vacation policy.
You're only "allowed" the two or three weeks of paid vacation, and
that's that. I remember chattting with a coworker a while back who
was telling me how exicted he was to have earned, after four years of
service, the ability to take a six-week (2 wks paid / 4wks unpaid)
vaction. It took a lot of begging and pleading though, but he finally
got it.

Is this the norm? Just doesn't sit right with me ...

[/quote]

I
can't talk for "Europe", but here in the UK, me and most others I know
would balk at the idea of 2 or 3 weeks vacation. Anything less than 4
weeks is seen as downright hostile, with 4-5 weeks being seen as the
norm. Personally I'm on 5 1/2 weeks (28 days) which is still pretty
normal. It would take a large sum of money to get me to even consider
dropping to 2 weeks a year. Book a single holiday and that's your
vacation time for the entire year used up!! Absurd.

It's not good
for you to not have regular breaks,andtired overworked staff tend to
output crap. When will these people learn that giving employees their
lives back is a genuine win-win scenario??

apapadimoulis

[quote user="RayS"]2 weeks a year. Book a single holiday and that's your vacation time for the entire year used up!! Absurd.[/quote]

Indeed. And keep in mind days like Friday After Thanksgiving, Christmas Eve, New Years Eve, etc are not company holidays -- unless you want to work during the holidays, your two week vacation lets you get away for a full week at most. This is one of the primary reasons I refuse to work as an employee -- give me a 2% raise in lieu of every paid week off and then we'll talk.

[quote user="RayS"]It's not good for you to not have regular breaks,andtired overworked staff tend to output crap. When will these people learn that giving employees their lives back is a genuine win-win scenario??[/quote]

Actually, we have a much better way of doing things here. Unpaid Overtime. Sure, you may be more productive per hour than we are, but our 60+ hour week decimates your 35 week any day. You'd probably havfe to work like 37 hours to be as productive as we are in 60.

Bob_Janova

I think the EU minimum is 20 days paid holiday per year (plus bank holidays, of which the UK is thought stingy with 8). The Real WTF is the American 'work your employees into the ground' culture.