Read Only Internet Forums
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I heard this one is cool.
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Writing to forums is a barrier to...something.
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Yeah, this message flashes fairly often for me in the evening
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Damn, you guys killed the humor. I was thoroughly enjoying how this topic about read only forums had only been read.
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this typically means that a forum backup is in progress
Because write operations during a backup do bad things sometimes.
(note that the request blocking during read-only mode is... strange,)
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I was thoroughly enjoying how this topic about read only forums had only been read.
quick, delete the replies! destroy the evidence!
Wait, I just added another reply, didn't I?
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:rage4:
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this typically means that a forum backup is in progress
That makes sense, but it would make more sense if it mentioned something about maintenance. Or if the admin had a way to post a custom message. Does he?
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May not work? Is that effectively saying "We're not sure that this read-only mode works for everything"?
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I dunno, do you believe Discourse is wholly deterministic? "May" is the safe bet here, considering the constant cascade of new bugs.
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I used to believe programming was basically deterministic, but Discourse changed my views on that.
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You can build highly non-deterministic systems out deterministic components and a network. You don't even need users!
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Yes, that's involving a network. I wasn't involving a network, simply programming and even then Discourse seems far too indeterministic...
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Uhm, not involving a network with Discourse? O_o
It's entirely possible for each component to be deterministic and tested to be so, proven to be exactly understandable, get for the agglomeration to be extremely unpredictable. Global properties (such as correctness, deadlock freedom, determinism) are a complete bitch because you can't really abstract them away. Ever.
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That's kind of what I mean... networking is full of indeterminism, and that's fine.
They're two separate things. Discourse is far from proven to be deterministic, and the more I use it - network issues aside - it seems the more indeterminate it gets.
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Just because you can't see that things are deterministic doesn't make them not so.
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Things that should be repeatable continue not to be entirely repeatable.
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But your idea of what should be repeatable is often incomplete, because you don't have the full picture. I'm sure we've all had this problem with our own software, even without network stuff getting in the way.
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Oh sure, especially for the crazy complex stuff but the thing is, even the crazy complex stuff can be unpicked. I feel like I have no idea where to start with Discourse... because while I'm sure deep down there are rational and reasonable explanations for everything, it feels so nebulous that I can't even begin to understand the rationale of things.
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Or if the admin had a way to post a custom message. Does he?
Ha ha. I don't even recall any settings on changing when backups happen...
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By the way, I heavily suggest regularly downloading a backup to your computer.
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Can you set when in a day that that backup happens?
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Was going to say it gets auto-staggered by the scheduler, but nope:
class CreateBackup < Jobs::Scheduled daily at: 3.hours
So 3AM server time.
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Which is kind of the point @PJH was making. 3am server time may end up being horribly inconvenient. Though I doubt it is too much in this community.
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Yeah, fuck the Australians. If their great great grand daddy had not been a thief it would not inconvenience them.
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I can't wait to see a forum administrator deliberately set their server time to something else to get around Discourse going into backup mode while it's at its busiest.
Filed under: being awake at 3AM anywhere in the world is doing it wrong, according to Jeff
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@Intercourse said:
Yeah, fuck the Australians. If their great great grand daddy had not been a thief it would not inconvenience them.
My great grand daddy was a mining magnate. You'd think I'd have a better life than I do.As for Read-Only Forums, it strikes me as an improvement for Discourse.
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Because write operations during a backup do bad things sometimes.
This is why we use VMs and Snapshots in the 21st century...when possible...
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I used to believe programming was basically deterministic, but Discourse changed my views on that.
Digital was invented by defining logic 0 to be ~0.0-0.8 Volts, and logic 1 to be ~2.2+ Volts. This made indeterminate analog deterministic.
Discourse took deterministic logic and made it indeterminate...and so, we've come full circle back to chaos again.
Some of us are NOT amused.
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This is why we use VMs and Snapshots in the 21st century...when possible...
Snapshots are not backups. The best way to do it, if cash flow allows, is to have multiple database servers and take one offline and perform a backup and then re-sync it when it comes online. To have each instance doing its own backup on shared hosting seems like a bad idea. They are also likely to run in to major scalability issues down the line with this architecture.
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@Intercourse said:
Snapshots are not backups.
I never said they were. The snapshot is to freeze the server in that moment in time for backup, then deleted.
Downside (we learned the hard way) is if that backup doesn't complete for any reason (i.e., reach the end so it sends the command to delete [consolidate] the snapshot), all kinds of fun can ensue with the VM down the line.
These days we use a Commvault agent and back up the server through that - much less hassle.