Excel clears the undo stack?



  • @bridget99 said:

    @El_Heffe said:

    @bridget99 said:

    @ender said:
    @PJH said:
    I've watched that loop round a couple of times and I'm missing whatever point it's trying to make; what is it?

    1. copied data is lost when you type something (well-known Excel annoyance)
    2. copied data resurrects when you undo both the text you typed and the first paste

    Yeeeah... I don't really think the clipboard should be affected by any of that.

    The problem is that Excel doesn't use the normal Windows clipboard.  For Excel (and Word too) Microsoft decided to create their own special custom clipboard with extra "features" (that I've never once needed to use), they  fucked it up, and they don't really seem to care to fix it.

     

    I have vague, troubling recollections of some kind of fancy clipboard coming out around the same time as Windows XP.

    To be fair, arbitrary arrangements of spreadsheet cells aren't exactly text.



  • @bridget99 said:

    Do you really think Slovenes want that? It sounds like stupidity to me.
    B/I/U doesn't mean anything - none of these letters are even used in the words describing the styles, so using them would be stupidity.



  • Necro-bumping a post and using foul language is allowed in this forum.

    Clear undo buffer in save is a feature that is enabled in Excel and there is no way to disable this feature with an registry editor.



  • Clear undo buffer is enabled by default in Excel XP and there is no way to disable this feature. You are allowed to use inappropriate words and bump old posts.



  • @ender said:

    @bridget99 said:
    Do you really think Slovenes want that? It sounds like stupidity to me.
    B/I/U doesn't mean anything - none of these letters are even used in the words describing the styles, so using them would be stupidity.

    You mean that letters B/I/U don't mean anything related to typography in the Slovene language... I assumed as much. It would be a huge coincidence if they did. Nevertheless, I think Windows applications should use B/I/U exclusively. Yeah, the resultant hotkey commands will end up looking arbitrary for non-English speakers, but such is life. It's not like there's any basis in the English language (or any other language) for Ctrl+V meaning paste, or for Alt+F4 meaning "close," or for F3 meaning "search." We're talking about keyboard shortcuts here. Our task is not to preserve the philological treasure of the Slovene language, it's to manage the fantastic complexity of Microsoft Office in a way that doesn't result in people karate-chopping their keyboards. It must be pretty agonizing to use Office in Slovenia. You know, people speak several different languages in that part of the world, and all languages have synonyms. Figuring out what letter of the alphabet "bold" starts with (or, was supposed by some Redmond neckbeard to start with) in Slovenian sounds like an agonizing waste of time for a pretty worthless payoff.



  • @bridget99 said:

    Nevertheless, I think Windows applications should use B/I/U exclusively.
    Why?@bridget99 said:
    Yeah, the resultant hotkey commands will end up looking arbitrary for non-English speakers, but such is life.
    Keyboard shortcuts (at least in Slovenian) are the same as in English (though I've heard that they're localized in some locales, too).@bridget99 said:
    It's not like there's any basis in the English language (or any other language) for Ctrl+V meaning paste
    It's obvious that you don't care about UI design at all. Undo, Cut, Copy, Paste are on Ctrl+Z,X,C,V - notice anything? These keys are right next to eachother on the keyboard (at least on the QWERTY layouts - they aren't on QWERTZ, which is what we use).



  • @rbowes said:

    Does anybody know what the logic behind this is?

    There is no logic. Excel is the second worst piece of mainstream software of all time. Total, indefensible bullshit. After all these years, they still haven't fixed these basic fucking problems!!?!

    You also didn't mention a good one: if you save in between cutting and pasting, you lose your clipboard. So if you are a compulsive saver (as buggy office software has trained so many to be) and you happen to control+S after you cut something, you have to cut it again. (Luckily Excel doesn't actually remove the cut cells until you paste. Even though it's non-standard behavior, it's better than deleting your cells, erasing your undo stack, and then saving the document.)

    Edit: Haha... just realized this thread is 6 years old, AND I posted in it 6 years ago to bitch about Excel. Some things don't change.



  • You are permitted to use inappropriate language on this forum.

    For Slovenian language, K is for Bold, L is for Italic and P is for Underline.

    What are the other definitions for other languages?



  •  I think Tae Wong is the long lost brother of horse_ebooks.



  • @ender said:

    @bridget99 said:
    Nevertheless, I think Windows applications should use B/I/U exclusively.
    Why?

    I'll give you an example of why I think that localizing keyboard shortcuts is bad. Suppose Word decides Ctrl+X should be "paste" on my keyboard, because somebody thinks the word for "paste" in my current location (according to the computer) starts with "X." Unless every other program on my system localizes keyboard shortcuts, too, and further, unless they also decide that the word that means "paste" where I am starts with an "X," the resulting user experience will be very disjointed. Ctrl+X will likely end up meaning "delete" in most programs, and "copy" for one program, or a few programs. That's horrible. If we're going to construct a modern day Tower of Babel, it should at least be in the pursuit of something less idiotic than localized keyboard shortcuts.

    @ender said:

    Keyboard shortcuts (at least in Slovenian) are the same as in English (though I've heard that they're localized in some locales, too).

    I was responding to a user who claimed the Slovenian shortcuts were different. If they're not, well, there may be a good reason for that... see my last paragraph, for example.

    @ender said:

    It's obvious that you don't care about UI design at all. Undo, Cut, Copy, Paste are on Ctrl+Z,X,C,V - notice anything? These keys are right next to eachother on the keyboard (at least on the QWERTY layouts - they aren't on QWERTZ, which is what we use).

    Yeah, I've actually noticed that, and it only backs up what I'm saying. Keyboard shortcuts are selected for a variety of reasons. Which letter begins the word that Microsoft thinks means "paste" in my language is actually not that relevant to the selection of keyboard shortcuts. Other things go into it, not the least of which is mere predictability.



    Now, you do raise another issue... should Ctrl+X, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, etc. change such that the same area of the keyboard is used regardless of QWERTY, QWERTZ, or even Dvorak? I don't think so; I think that this is one of those cases where there's no correct answer, and really not even a preferable answer, so it's best to go with the something simple and arbitrary. To just using Ctrl and a (consistent) letter regardless of one's presumed position in time, space, or any other dimension is that simple, arbitrary approach in this case. Trying to go with local language letters is fraught with peril. Moving keys around for QWERTZ, Dvorak, and who knows what else doesn't seem much better.



    I've been on at least one project where the developers were much more enthusiastic about localization than the actual end users (who were quite content to just use English). I think this is something that caused problems in the early days of computing (e.g. all that "codepage" crap on Wintel systems with 8-bit characters) and turned into a sort of "fun" problem for programmers and computer scientists. As a result, it's gotten much more attention than any end user demand could ever justify.



  • @bridget99 said:

    I was responding to a user who claimed the Slovenian shortcuts were different.

    Nobody ever said that. They said the "letters" are different, which you misread as the letters for keyboard shortcut. They meant the letters on the toolbar icons.



  • @derula said:

    They meant the letters on the toolbar icons.
     

    Why would they be?

    I mean, why make a special excepti nto create new local icons for one or two countries, but leave it to BIU for every other language?



  • @derula said:

    @bridget99 said:
    I was responding to a user who claimed the Slovenian shortcuts were different.

    Nobody ever said that. They said the "letters" are different, which you misread as the letters for keyboard shortcut. They meant the letters on the toolbar icons.

    Oh; thank you.



    I don't think letters incorporated into icons should change based on my current language selection, or any other computerized notion of what language I might prefer. I'm really surprised that anyone would feel otherwise... it almost seems like a symptom of obsessive / compulsive disorder or something. It's probably also a recipe for confusion of the sort I posited in my previous post about keyboard shortcuts. For instance, here's a question for you: if the icon for "bold" changes to some Slovenian word's initial letter, shouldn't the keyboard shortcut do so as well? You're saying that such is not the case. How is the user supposed to know? Wouldn't just using English for a few things in life (or, just not un-doing English in a few select places) basically solve this issue in the simplest way possible? After all, that's how quite a few things work in actual non-Microsoft Windows practice.



  • The undo stack also tries to erase itself every time you save in PowerPoint XP and spell-check in Excel XP on your Windows 2000 virtual machine. In Windows XP, disable File Protection using third party software, go to Control Panel, choose Fonts, delete “Tahoma” and “Microsoft Sans Serif”, type some Greek Polytonic characters and the characters appear in “Times New Roman” or something. He feels irritated if we write some nonsense. Disable writing some nonsense. Anybody know how the logic i?



  • THIS IS THE LOBSTER THAT ATE ALL THE PIZZAS!! HE IS EATING THE POTATOES!!! HE IS AT THE RESTAURANTS!! THE LOBSTER DRANK THE SODAS!!!!

    HEY LOBSTER, TAKE IT EASY!!! DON'T EAT ALL THE POTATOES!!! KING WINKLES IS RUNNING LATE!!! HIS SHOE-BOOTS ARE STUCK IN THE CEMENT!!!!



  • When he is on this forum, someone writes irritating stories instead. You might interpret the forum with the usage of vulgarity. The stories on this forum needs to be deleted; usually its screaming.



  • @Tae Wong said:

    When he is on this forum,
    someone writes irritating stories instead.

    You might interpret the forum with the usage of vulgarity.
    The stories on this forum needs to be deleted;
    usually its screaming.



  • Everybody had a good time laughing because it was snowing! Did you see the Buddy Hackett movie? I SAW IT AND I WAS LAUGHING VERY HARD.



  • Never get this topic with stories and use foul language whereas swearing is illegal.

    Joder?



  • The octopus came to town and all the octopuses did a wild dance and they were HAPPY!



  • No more vulgarity or swearing in this forum.

    Community Server has no ability to ban users while the report feature directs to an compose post page.



  • I found a TINY DRUM THAT WAS MADE OUT OF GOLD! DON'T ASK ME WHERE I FOUND IT! OK I'LL TELL YOU! I FOUND IT ON THE FLOOR!



  • Excel 2007 and 2010 does not have this feature. The undo stack seems to erase itself every time you close a file. Excel XP says that the undo stack seems to erase itself every time you spell-check or enable Auto-Filter. No way to disable it.



  • I am sorry about all the yelling in my post early this morning! I deleted it very FAST!



  • No more profanity. Discuss this thread as an question and remove funny posts.



  • GUESS WHAT I SAW!

    Can you guess? I saw the salt!

    OH NO, NOT THE OLD SALTS!

    IT'S OLD SALTS!!!



  • Is this some kind of mating ritual?



  • Also - am I the only one who hears "Excel clears the un-d-o stack" to the melody of "Video Killed the Radio Star"?



  • @bannedfromcoding said:

    Also - am I the only one who hears "Excel clears the un-d-o stack" to the melody of "Video Killed the Radio Star"?
     

    I wasn't until now, you bastid.



  • @bannedfromcoding said:

    Also - am I the only one who hears "Excel clears the un-d-o stack" to the melody of "Video Killed the Radio Star"?
     

    Yes, bvecause Ex-cel has fewer syllables than Vi-de-o, so the metre gets a tad strained.



  • @dhromed said:

    Yes, bvecause Ex-cel has fewer syllables than Vi-de-o, so the metre gets a tad strained.




    Yeah, it takes a ce-el pronounciation. And even among my users only one ever said it that way. Most of them insist on writing the word with double L at the end, though.

    Unfortunately, I still can't get the song out of my head.


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