Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft
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@cheong said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@tsaukpaetra said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@cheong said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
And with BitLocker enabled, users on the system can choose to encrypt their user folder with their personal certificate in their certificate store. Unless that is a domain user, even if you're local administrator you will have no way to access the folder contents.
Wait, hold up, aren't you the one supposedly talking about
@cheong said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
less technically capable people
There are lots of people who think BitLocker is cool and enabled it when installed Win7, then try "fresh install" Win10 to dual boot without knowing to "suspend" BitLocker first (this will write the encryption key to harddisk, and enable the other Windows system that has BitLocker to use the same key to encrypt/decrypt the drive)
What should I call them?
I've actually done the equivalent of that a few times when reinstalling Inedo products after I messed up their databases during development and had to roll back to a backup... and deleted the encryption key while I was uninstalling.
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Is this the thread for random Windows 10 WTFs?
Today's is the taskbar. Specifically, the icons on it.
It is probably news to no one here that the icons are smaller than on Windows 7. And for some reason, Windows 10 offers an option to make them smaller yet (Windows 7 had 32×32, Windows 10 defaults to 24×24 and allows you to further shrink them to 16×16). The inability to switch back to 32*32 is WTF enough, but the truely WTF part is yet to come.
Wanting to make a program that looks good even on Windows 10, I gave it an icon in both the common sizes and the WTF one: 16×16, 24×24, 32×32, 48×48, and last but not least, 256×256 PNG. And on my taskbar... There was still the shrunk version of the 32×32 image. Windows 10 not only demands to display your icons too small, but even when you give it an icon the size it wants on a platter, it doesn't even want it.
And naturally, all Microsoft employees do when people point out the icons are too small is alternate between "Use the setting that embiggens everything"' (which by the way, doesn't even use the right icon sizes either) and the metaphorical middle finger of "This is by design".
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@medinoc just set it so that they're the correct size, 16x16. Done.
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@medinoc As someone who could probably be called with at least some level of accuracy a Microsoft apologist, that's dumb and they should fix it.
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@anotherusername But that's so Windows Vista!
More seriously, it makes the buttons too small for practical use, so I end up needing to disable button merging. The taskbar really does end up XP/Vista-like.
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I never understood what's so useful about tiny buttons displaying only an icon.
You have to remember a lot of cryptic icons and you have to switch with 'previews' because of that ridiculous grouping.That's how a useful taskbar looks like.
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@mrl said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
I never understood what's so useful about tiny buttons displaying only an icon.
That's what I use
@zecc said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
There is only one correct taksbar position: on the top.
Which is, incidentally, broken on Win10. Oh, it will let you do it. And then proceeds to place window titlebars under the taskbar...
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@onyx said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
There is only one correct taksbar position: on the top.
Windows 3.11 tried to call.
But it couldn't get Skype working.
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@zecc said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
It doesn't work so good when you have tabs on side in applications too, like VS and browser, half of screen is tabs/tasks.
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@onyx said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
There is only one correct taksbar position: on the top.
Which is, incidentally, broken on Win10. Oh, it will let you do it. And then proceeds to place window titlebars under the taskbar...Same thing happens when on the left (with small icons!). I blame the program. You can't just position at 0,0 - you have to check the workspace area.
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@medinoc said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
it makes the buttons too small for practical use, so I end up needing to disable button merging
Well yeah. Obviously you should already have that disabled, so you can actually read the window titles in the taskbar
The taskbar really does end up XP/Vista-like.
I'm not seeing the problem here.
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@zecc said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@onyx said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
There is only one correct taksbar position: on the top.
Windows 3.11 tried to call.
But it couldn't get Skype working.
Windows 3.11 didn't have a taskbar. Windows were windows, and if you minimized them, they became little stickers in the bottom left of the desktop.
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You're right. I was thinking of the Program Manager's menubar, or something.
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@ben_lubar said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
The lack of an ability to selectively give access to resources is another thing that apparently only desktop computers suffer from.
You can't do it on Android either. You can't remove just the "buy our stupid photo album!" advertising notification, that Google shoves out in violation of all their own policies because they're fucking horrible, without blocking all other notifications from the same app.
And I can't block the "your phone is plugged into a USB cable, even though you just plugged it in yourself and you obviously know that" notification at all. That one's immune from blocking, for some reason.
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@marczellm said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
I don't think they apply in this case; you can opt out of any of those permissions individually after installation, so apps must handle those cases already.
Just like Windows 2000 and Windows XP apps needed to handle running on non-Admin users anyway, so UAC shouldn't cause any problems when introduced...
OH WAIT turns out all programmers are incompetent dumbshits.
EDIT: I got shown this month-old thread as if it were new? Well whatever.
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@onyx said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
And then proceeds to place window titlebars under the taskbar...
In Windows, it's the application's responsibility to check the workspace area. Which was obviously a bad mistake, because all software developers are lazy idiots who produce buggy shit.
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@blakeyrat said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
all software developers are lazy idiots who produce buggy shit
And Microsoft is one of the biggest employer of developers.
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@blakeyrat said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@onyx said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
And then proceeds to place window titlebars under the taskbar...
In Windows, it's the application's responsibility to check the workspace area. Which was obviously a bad mistake, because all software developers are lazy idiots who produce buggy shit.
So when I drag a window so that its title bar is partially above the top of the screen, and when I release the window it jumps down so that its top edge is at the edge of the screen, is Windows doing that or is it the application? Because I observe that behavior pretty consistently and it seems like if it was up to the application there would be less consistency about applications doing it.
Note that I'm not talking about releasing the window in a position that causes Windows to automatically maximize or dock it. If you use the arrow keys to move the window, it won't automatically maximize or dock when you press enter, but it will still move back down so that its title bar doesn't go above the top of the screen.
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@anotherusername said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
is Windows doing that or is it the application?
I believe Windows, unless it's some nightmare horror application that does all its own blitting and ignores all OS messages.
But I said "workspace area", not "screen area". different concepts. The workspace is the area normal windowed apps are allowed to use, which doesn't include the taskbar. (However, full-screen apps like video games-- some of which are implemented as plain ol' borderless windows-- are allowed to use the full screen, which is probably why Microsoft leaves it up to the application itself.)
EDIT: for the record, finding the workspace area on a monitor is a fucking one-liner:
this.MaximizedBounds = Screen.FromHandle(this.Handle).WorkingArea;
And it can't be MUCH harder in C++. Developers are just fucking lazy as fuck.
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@blakeyrat said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@anotherusername said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
is Windows doing that or is it the application?
I believe Windows, unless it's some nightmare horror application that does all its own blitting and ignores all OS messages.
But I said "workspace area", not "screen area". different concepts. The workspace is the area normal windowed apps are allowed to use, which doesn't include the taskbar.
Then Windows shouldn't check to see that the window isn't above the top of the screen area: it should check to see that it's not above the top of the workspace area.
full-screen apps like video games-- some of which are implemented as plain ol' borderless windows-- are allowed to use the full screen, which is probably why Microsoft leaves it up to the application itself
I don't think the edge check happens at all when the application itself positions itself. It's when a window drag event occurs. This can happen because the user begins dragging the window's title bar, because they selected "Move" in the system menu, or the application itself can initiate it -- attach itself to the mouse pointer -- so that applications (e.g. ones that don't have title bars) can create their own title bar/draggable zone. But the system handles the window movement once this event begins, and positions the window once the drag is completed (esc, enter, or the mouse button is released).
So there's no reason why an application couldn't cover the taskbar if it actually meant to position itself there.
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@anotherusername said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
So there's no reason why an application couldn't cover the taskbar if it actually meant to position itself there.
It's really easy to see when the taskbar is on the bottom. You can move a window behind it without any issue.
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@anotherusername I'd say the heuristic could be "if the window were borderless, and didn't advertise that it has side-resize-bars or a title bar, then it can cover the taskbar". But that doesn't work in 2018 because that describes basically EVERY app.
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@blakeyrat add "always on top" to that list of criteria and I think you get close enough.
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@blakeyrat said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@anotherusername said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
is Windows doing that or is it the application?
I believe Windows, unless it's some nightmare horror application that does all its own blitting and ignores all OS messages.
But I said "workspace area", not "screen area". different concepts. The workspace is the area normal windowed apps are allowed to use, which doesn't include the taskbar. (However, full-screen apps like video games-- some of which are implemented as plain ol' borderless windows-- are allowed to use the full screen, which is probably why Microsoft leaves it up to the application itself.)
EDIT: for the record, finding the workspace area on a monitor is a fucking one-liner:
this.MaximizedBounds = Screen.FromHandle(this.Handle).WorkingArea;
And it can't be MUCH harder in C++. Developers are just fucking lazy as fuck.
RECT r; SystemParametersInfo(SPI_GETWORKAREA, 0, &r, 0);
Or
GetMonitorInfo
for the non-primary monitor.
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@blakeyrat Could be, but isn't;
SetWindowPos()
is a loaded gun. On the other hand, if you overrideWndProc()
and handleWM_NCHITTEST
, you can straight up tell Windows what's a minimize button, title bar, border, et cetera, and let it worry about it for you. Too bad developers like guns more...
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@blakeyrat said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
Developers are just fucking lazy as fuck.
You're goddamn right!
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@blakeyrat said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@el_heffe Android does it and is wildly successful. But when Microsoft does it, here comes the bitching.
Note: I'm not endorsing this feature, I think it's stupid too. But I think it's more stupid to ask "wildly successful product X does this, why does Windows do it now?" Well duh. Why wouldn't they? The market has shown people want it. Apparently.
Anyway the solution to idiot's problem there is: don't share your user account with other people. Also well duh. Solving problems like this is why user accounts exist.
Whoever at Microsoft thought this was a good idea is even more out of touch than you are. Pictures kept on your phone are almost always pictures that you took. Shit you want to remember. Pictures of your kids, your dogs and cats, friends, maybe even your lunch if you are an Instagram hipster. All of these photos are recent. As recent as the last time you purchased a phone, so less than two years.
Most people's computers are full of crap. Years and years of crap. I have everything on my computer from blurry photos from some pub in my 20's, to memes, to TIFF files of user manuals for shit I don't even own anymore, JPEG scans of tax documents, reaction gifs and all sorts of other shit. 20+ years of uncurated shit. Less than 1% of it is anything I would ever want to end up in a photo album.
So yeah, the person who dreamed up this meathook abortion should be fired and you should be ashamed for ever thinking there was any comparison.
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@polygeekery said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
Most people's computers are full of crap. Years and years of crap. I have everything on my computer from blurry photos from some pub in my 20's, to memes, to TIFF files of user manuals for shit I don't even own anymore, JPEG scans of tax documents, reaction gifs and all sorts of other shit. 20+ years of uncurated shit. Less than 1% of it is anything I would ever want to end up in a photo album.
I feel like we're the exact opposite. My phone is full of internet shit, but my computer is mostly documents and images from my personal photo library.
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@bb36e said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
I feel like we're the exact opposite.
He gets that a lot.
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@mrl said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
I never understood what's so useful about tiny buttons displaying only an icon.
You have to remember a lot of cryptic icons and you have to switch with 'previews' because of that ridiculous grouping.That's how a useful taskbar looks like.
No.
Go hide in your basement.
Filed under: bet you’re one of those people who hate ribbon, too.
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@kt_ said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
Filed under: bet you’re one of those people who hate ribbon, too.
Well, you're one of those people who think Iphone is the next coming of Christ, so...
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@mrl said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@kt_ said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
Filed under: bet you’re one of those people who hate ribbon, too.
Well, you're one of those people who think Iphone is the next coming of Christ, so...
No, I’m not.
So go hide in your basement. Now.
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Simply the best OS ever
https://www.howtogeek.com/342871/hey-microsoft-stop-installing-apps-on-my-pc-without-asking/
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@timebandit said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
Simply the best OS ever
https://www.howtogeek.com/342871/hey-microsoft-stop-installing-apps-on-my-pc-without-asking/I love being a product. It makes me feel useful. You can be a product too! </poppy>
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@kt_ said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@mrl said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
I never understood what's so useful about tiny buttons displaying only an icon.
You have to remember a lot of cryptic icons and you have to switch with 'previews' because of that ridiculous grouping.That's how a useful taskbar looks like.
No.
Go hide in your basement.
Filed under: bet you’re one of those people who hate ribbon, too.
What's wrong with it? It's making the best of a bad situation (Windows taskbar on the bottom).
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@onyx said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
There is only one correct taksbar position: on the top.
Which is, incidentally, broken on Win10.
If you click the clock in Windows 10, you get a calendar. You can also click something to get the flyout to extend and show you your upcoming appointments.
If you have the taskbar on the bottom, this link is positioned on the top of the flyout with an arrow pointing upwards. If you click it, the arrow rotates.
If you have the taskbar on top, the order of items in the flyout is inverted. However, in the collapsed state the arrow is still pointing upwards...
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@alexmedia said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
the arrow
Yeah. Really wish they had come up with better icons for "can be expanded but not" and "can be expanded and is".
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@onyx said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
And then proceeds to place window titlebars under the taskbar...
just tried and it doesn't do that for me.
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@blakeyrat said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@el_heffe Android does it and is wildly successful. But when Microsoft does it, here comes the bitching.
I've never used Android anything, but I seriously doubt Android is "wildly successful" because of this feature.
Note: I'm not endorsing this feature, I think it's stupid too. But I think it's more stupid to ask "wildly successful product X does this, why does Windows do it now?" Well duh. Why wouldn't they? The market has shown people want it. Apparently.
I never claimed Microsoft was copying Android or criticized them for copying Android. It's entirely possible for more than one person to have the same idea, so Microsoft might not even be copying Android, it might just be a stupid idea they came up with.
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@el_heffe said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@blakeyrat said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@el_heffe Android does it and is wildly successful. But when Microsoft does it, here comes the bitching.
I've never used Android anything, but I seriously doubt Android is "wildly successful" because of this feature.
I assumed it was more "despite this feature"
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@tsaukpaetra said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
I assumed it was more "despite this feature"
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@timebandit I got automatic app installs disabled on my PC running Win 10 Pro, and it seems to be still working. I guess the author of that article has not bothered to go traversing through the registry to find the appropriate and not-quite-obvious registry key to disable it!
Edit: He does link to one registry key, but it's not the one I'm using. Hmm...
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@atazhaia said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
I guess the author of that article has not bothered to go traversing through the registry to find the appropriate and not-quite-obvious registry key to disable it
Because stopping your OS from installing apps without your consent should be done by hacking the registry, of course
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@timebandit said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@atazhaia said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
I guess the author of that article has not bothered to go traversing through the registry to find the appropriate and not-quite-obvious registry key to disable it
Because stopping your OS from installing apps without your consent should be done by hacking the registry, of course
Keep your PC running smoothly with this one simple trick! Corporations hate it!
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@polygeekery said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
Less than 1% of it is anything I would ever want to end up in a photo album.
What's even better is if you own old equipment (like, oh for example, 1980s music synthesizers) that save their memories to tape, and instead of digging out a period-correct tape recorder you just hook it to your PC, fire up Audacity, and record it to a file...
... and then your media player indexes those files and decides they'd be good in a shuffle playlist.
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@gordonjcp said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
@polygeekery said in Windows 10 and another brilliant idea from Microsoft:
Less than 1% of it is anything I would ever want to end up in a photo album.
What's even better is if you own old equipment (like, oh for example, 1980s music synthesizers) that save their memories to tape, and instead of digging out a period-correct tape recorder you just hook it to your PC, fire up Audacity, and record it to a file...
... and then your media player indexes those files and decides they'd be good in a shuffle playlist.
Kids 20 years from now – 00:21
— Matt Vargas