Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!
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I thought I wouldn't have to rant about COWORKER since last week's his last week. But fuckdamn if he didn't ask for help 15 minutes before I'm ready to leave.
Lorne, how do you debug a .dll of another project? (Effectively a custom control that plugs into multiple solutions of ours)
Put a breakpoint before you call the plugin code, then F11 into it. Visual Studio will ask you where the source code is on your computer.
{thinking: how the fuck did you get this far without knowing this-- wait, never mind, I know how. By failing. Hard. All the time}...
Lorne, I put a breakpoint into the other project, recompiled it, and put the new .dll and .pdb into my project, but the breakpoints don't hit.
Uh... breakpoints don't "compile" into the code like that. You need to put a breakpoint BEFORE the plugin call, and step into it.
Oh okay I'll try that....
Hey Lorne, I still can't get this working. Can you come over to my desk.
{grumble grumble} Look, what's the problem you are trying to solve?
I fill out the form (the plugin makes custom forms... like a Contact Us form)... and it's set to email, and I put in my email address, but I don't get the email.
Where are you putting the breakpoi-- wait, email? Is your localhost configured to send emails?
Yes, I get the Forgot Password email.
But the plugin uses a different system email configuration. Where's the code for "Send Email" in the plugin code?
here...SendEmailForForm()
Okay, what does that function do?
What do you mean?
Like, look at the code for the function. On your screen.
{opens the function code and stares at it}
Where does the configuration come from?
I don't know.
Well, it's right thereLoadConfiguration()
. What does the function do?
I don't know.
.... well, look at the function.
... {stares at screen}
Right there.
Where?
Right. There.EmailSender = AppConfig.EmailSender
. What is the email sender?
I don't know.
.... well, look at the function!
{stares at the screen}
It says it RIGHT THERE. It's taking it from {database configuration table}, and the column {weird sounding column name that isn't our standard naming convention}
{stares at the screen}
And right before that, there's a commented out line-- getting the email sender from Session{that weird sounding column as key}. So that must have happened when we changed futzing around with the session to just loading the database record and getting the columns.
.... so?
So does that column exist in the database table? ... let me make this quicker. It doesn't. File a bug for the product, and just for now create that column and set it tonoreply@TheNameOfLornesCompanyFuckOffNoDoxxing.com
.
... hey, it works now.
Yes. It does.SOMETIMES ALL YOU NEED TO DO TO FIGURE OUT A PROBLEM IS TO LOOK AT THE GODDAMN FUCKING CODE AND JUST SEE WHAT IT'S DOING AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE? JESUS BUDDAH-FUCKING MOHAMMAD!
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@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
BUDDAH-FUCKING MOHAMMAD
Buddha was a bit too old for Muhammad's tastes.
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@lorne-kates I swear I've had that exact same conversation with my coworkers. :(
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@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
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@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
That person had an excuse, the computer had literally just been invented.
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There are three types of developers:
- Complete newbies - they need guidance.
- Those who have to deal with this type of coworker (or even student partner)
- Those who ARE that type of coworker
;( :)
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@polygeekery said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
That person had an excuse, the computer had literally just been invented.
No.
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@polygeekery said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
That person had an excuse, the computer had literally just been invented.
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the mathematical equation wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
Surely their excuse is not that math was just invented?
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@lb_ said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@polygeekery said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
That person had an excuse, the computer had literally just been invented.
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the mathematical equation wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
Surely their excuse is not that math was just invented?
Answers were just invented.
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@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
"I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
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@unperverted-vixen said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates I swear I've had that exact same conversation with my
coworkerstrans hookers . :(
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@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
Interestingly, there are equation systems that produce the right answer out when you put the wrong figures in as input. Those wrong figures are the initial WAG…
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@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
Answers were just invented.
But colors weren't invented until some time later. So everything was a bit more black and white back then.
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@cvi I think you’ll find that the world had plenty of colour before the mid-19th century, then large parts of it went black and white for about a hundred years before colour gradually crept back in. Then it went weird for a little while, and it’s now mostly back to what passes for normal.
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@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
TheNameOfLornesCompanyFuckOffNoDoxxing.com
Your site's down, FYI.
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A former co-worker (definitely not a cow-orker) put it best:
"Use the Source, Luke!"
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@gurth said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@cvi I think you’ll find that the world had plenty of colour before the mid-19th century, then large parts of it went black and white for about a hundred years before colour gradually crept back in. Then it went weird for a little while, and it’s now mostly back to what passes for normal.
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@lorne-kates That's not even debugging (in the sense of using a debugger to step through code). It's just basic logic, and understanding that computers are not arcane mind reading machines that do black magic. That simple processes have inputs and outputs, and the output depends on the input. And that if you don't know what is going on, you LOOK AT THE CODE to figure it out.
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@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
If the right answer is "Hey doofus your input doesn't make sense", there are algorithms which will provide the right answer given wrong input.
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@kian said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates That's not even debugging (in the sense of using a debugger to step through code). It's just basic logic, and understanding that computers are not arcane mind reading machines that do black magic. That simple processes have inputs and outputs, and the output depends on the input. And that if you don't know what is going on, you LOOK AT THE CODE to figure it out.
Debugging is usually that stuff. IME.
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@kian said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
computers are not arcane mind reading machines that do black magic
There goes Plan A! :(
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@pleegwat said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
If the right answer is "Hey doofus your input doesn't make sense", there are algorithms which will provide the right answer given wrong input.
"Hey fucktard, what is 9 times Rabbit divided by the scent of a mother's hug? Exactly, so shut the fuck up you braindead weasle-fucker" - Charles Babbage, Passages from the Life of a Philosopher (1864)
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@lorne-kates Don't need to debug if you have no bugs
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@jazzyjosh said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates Don't need to debug if you have no bugs
On an unrelated note.... If your fucking needs debugging then you have bigger problems
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Arrrgh, the whole "debugging" thing has always been a problem for me. It's come to the point where if someone is about to ask me a question, I say, "I'm not talking until you've told me you used the debugger" then they shut up and never come back to me again, usually.
Most of these are junior developers, though, and they typically get into the habit... takes 2 years to get into it, but hey, it's better than never, I guess.
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@the_quiet_one said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
Arrrgh, the whole "debugging" thing has always been a problem for me
In modern times...sure. But (at least for me), there really was not much when you had a stack of cards in - and a stack of paper out....so I am not sure that the "always" universally applies :) :) :) :) [and actually, sometimes I miss those days before there were "users"]
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@the_quiet_one Once they've learned that, introduce them to working on timing problems with multiple processes in multiple security contexts. That's where normal debugging doesn't work at all…
And once they've mastered that, throw in multithreaded programs with hardware interrupts.
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@dkf said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
And once they've mastered that, throw in multithreaded programs with hardware interrupts.
And once they have mastered that, throw in performance related problems related to L1 and L2 cache synchronization....
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@kian said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates That's not even debugging (in the sense of using a debugger to step through code). It's just basic logic, and understanding that computers are not arcane mind reading machines that do black magic. That simple processes have inputs and outputs, and the output depends on the input. And that if you don't know what is going on, you LOOK AT THE CODE to figure it out.
Interesting. What term do you use for squashing bugs using reading just log files and the code?
EDIT: Just to clarify, I use the term "debugging" rather broadly.
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@jbert Well, I'm a native Spanish speaker, so technical terms get a bit mangled in translation. I generally refer to fixing bugs in general, irrespective of the tools used, as "fixing bugs".
If I want to specify using the debugger I'll say "debugging" or "stepping through the code". Which I could do independently of fixing bugs, if I'm trying to learn how a particular bit of code behaves before extending it, for example, or while coding to check that the work I've done so far is correct.
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@ben_lubar said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@sumireko said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
@lorne-kates said in Learn some goddamn fucking basic debugging skills for fuck's sake already!:
AND IF IT IS ACCESSING DATA IS THAT FUCKING DATA EVEN THERE
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?"
"I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."