"Le mobile multifonction"
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The Enrichment Commission for the French Language (Commission d'enrichissement de la langue française) strikes again.
In other news:
French told not to say 'smartphone' in ongoing battle against English
French language guardians are attempting to rid France of the word "smartphone" in their ongoing battle against English tech terms. But will "mobile multifonction" really catch on?
French IT specialists have complained about not being able to find jobs abroad. When asked, international companies cited "a lack of knowledge of fundamental IT terms they even know in third world countries" as a reason.
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@pjh said in "Le mobile multifonction":
But will mobile multifonction really catch on?
Probably not, it doesn't have a certain je ne sais quoi.
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I usually refer to smartphones as "fucking pieces of shit", "where the fuck did my battery go, you cunt?" and "no, fuck you, I don't want to update Facebook, I don't even want it, fuck your preloaded bullshit".
I'm enriching the English language, basically. You twats all owe me.
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In German the situation is reversed.
We love using English words so much (because it sounds modern?) that we come up with stupid English phrases for everything. Or let's say the ad industry and a few other idiots do, to the point that most old people have no idea what these ads are trying to say, even if it's ads targeted at them.The "German" word for mobile phone is "Mobiltelefon", but instead we use the term "Handy", because we thinks that's the English word for it. Most English speakers are quite surprised if you want to give them a handy.
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Hmmm, let's look at some of these other words they've French-ified...
Yeah, that makes sense, the French know all about retreat
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@topspin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
The "German" word for mobile phone is "Mobiltelefon", but instead we use the term "Handy"
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@pjh said in "Le mobile multifonction":
French IT specialists have complained about not being able to find jobs abroad. When asked, international companies cited "a lack of knowledge of fundamental IT terms they even know in third world countries" as a reason.
Oh, they do complain? I thought they are proud that rest of the world can't communicate with them.
I worked with french company only on one project, but it was... memorable.
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If you're going to abandon "smartphone", you might as well use the opportunity to name it correctly: pocket computer.
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@pjh said in "Le mobile multifonction":
The Enrichment Commission for the French Language (Commission d'enrichissement de la langue française)
Shirley that's the Commission for the Enrichment of the French Language?
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OPINION: France's fight against new English words is 'totally stupid'
President Emmanuel Macron has this week been urged to protect French from the 'tyranny' of English, but Camille Chevalier-Karfis, founder of the language site French Today says France's fight against new English words is "totally stupid".
Edit to add: linked mostly for the image in the onebox.
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On one hand, this commission regularly produces ridiculous proposal that are never adopted apart in official texts that have no choice about it (and may even drop them after a few years).
On the other hand, in the mass of these ridiculous terms, there are a few that have actually been so well accepted that no one remembers they ever came from such a proposal, and are now considered as native French! One of those is "ordinateur" for "computer", nobody would use "computer" and many would not even know what it means.
Some other have reached wide-acceptance, but without erasing the English one. "Baladeur" for "walkman" (although that one is actually a brand, whereas the French word is a generic term for which there is no simple English equivalent... "music player", I guess?), "financement participatif" for "crowdfunding"...
So while this commission has obviously no real say on whether a term will catch or not, not all of their proposals have fallen flat.
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@remi @topspin Yeah, and there's a difference between regular folks and the institutions dedicated to preserving the French language. Regular folks have no qualms about using English or pseudo-English words.
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@khudzlin It can be argued that it is stupid to even have a normative commission for the language. But once it exists, you can't really blame it for doing its job.
Funnily, these proposals usually draw more criticism and mockery from outside France. French people are just used to ignoring it and use whatever they want.
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@remi said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@khudzlin It can be argued that it is stupid to even have a normative commission for the language. But once it exists, you can't really blame it for doing its job.
Well, I know there are some other languages with normative institutions. There's a Spanish language academy, for instance, iirc. I also know English doesn't have such institutions at all.
Funnily, these proposals usually draw more criticism and mockery from outside France. French people are just used to ignoring it and use whatever they want.
Yeah well, I know I'm not going to adopt whatever they spout without thinking about it. If they come up with something I like, I'll use it. If they come up with something I find ludicrous, I'll mock it. And I bet you do the same.
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@khudzlin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@remi said in "Le mobile multifonction":
Well, I know there are some other languages with normative institutions. There's a Spanish language academy, for instance, iirc. I also know English doesn't have such institutions at all.On the principle, since language is the basis with which all rules of our society are written (or expressed), it's not totally insane to have some form of norm or reference for it. I think in the English-speaking world there is a kind of consensus that the OED or some similar source can be used as a reference, even if they don't officially have any role.
Funnily, these proposals usually draw more criticism and mockery from outside France. French people are just used to ignoring it and use whatever they want.
Yeah well, I know I'm not going to adopt whatever they spout without thinking about it. If they come up with something I like, I'll use it. If they come up with something I find ludicrous, I'll mock it. And I bet you do the same.
We sure do. But like I said, we mostly ignore them and sometimes a word silently creeps into common use (also, some of the those words are already in widespread use when the commission takes notice and makes them official!), and the rest is quickly forgotten. But we certainly make less fuss about it than foreigners do.
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That's exactly why it is insane to have those institutions - they have no influence on reality.
Parliament should decree that weather is great and everyone is happy. That would solve so many problems.
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@mrl said in "Le mobile multifonction":
they have no influence on reality.
The ones in Quebec do; they shake down business owners who dare commit the heinous crime of not having French text be the biggest on their sign.
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@topspin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
Most English speakers are quite surprised if you want to give them a handy.
I heard a similar story when an Australian went to New Zealand and was offered a "cell".
@topspin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
but instead we use the term "Handy"
I've heard that before but thought that was an old network or brand, and it became like a genericised trademark?
My Dad calls ATMs "Handybanks" because he used to work at a bank where that was their term for them, even though he left (both as an employee and a customer) over 20 years ago! And the bank themselves no longer brands their ATMs or cards with "Handy" for almost that long.
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@hungrier said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@mrl said in "Le mobile multifonction":
they have no influence on reality.
The ones in Quebec do; they shake down business owners who dare commit the heinous crime of not having French text be the biggest on their sign.
Yeah, controlling superfluous bits and handing out punishments gives a nice illusion of doing actual work and having a real influence.
They try to do it in Poland too. I don't know if it's still enforced, cause no one gives a fuck.
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@mrl said in "Le mobile multifonction":
reality.
Reality gives us this kind of French text:
"bonjour,
dimanche 21 janvier, brevet VTT de LAPUGNOY:
les conditions climatiques annoncées nous annoncent un superbe week end pour rouler.
Certes les dernières pluies nous ont +/- rendu les parcours un peu gras, mais le vent fait son travail et ce week end va être un pur bonheur!!!- le 15 kms D+ 154m roulant, agréable seul ou en famille ,chemin, bois, terril, 3 kms de bitume. 1 ravito à l'arrivée.
- le 30 kms D+ 395m, soit le 15kms plus 15kms de bois poufffff, ça commence à brûler aux cuisses!! 1 ravito + 1 arrivée.
- le 45 kms D+ 595m, soit le 30kms plus 15 roulant pour dérouler les jambes...2 ravitos + 1 arrivée.
- le 60 kms D+ 730m ...... CHT'I qui l'a pas fait , Y'A KA S' TAIRE!!!!! faisable en 3h30 pour un cyclo normal. 3 ravitos + 1.
bonne réception et à DIMANCHE
bye bye Pierre.."
Merci Pierre pour votre pub!
Conclusion ... French will abbreviate everything and everybody is welcome this Sunday in Lapugnoy.
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@luhmann said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@mrl said in "Le mobile multifonction":
reality.
Reality gives us this kind of French text:
"bonjour,
dimanche 21 janvier, brevet VTT de LAPUGNOY:
les conditions climatiques annoncées nous annoncent un superbe week end pour rouler.
Certes les dernières pluies nous ont +/- rendu les parcours un peu gras, mais le vent fait son travail et ce week end va être un pur bonheur!!!- le 15 kms D+ 154m roulant, agréable seul ou en famille ,chemin, bois, terril, 3 kms de bitume. 1 ravito à l'arrivée.
- le 30 kms D+ 395m, soit le 15kms plus 15kms de bois poufffff, ça commence à brûler aux cuisses!! 1 ravito + 1 arrivée.
- le 45 kms D+ 595m, soit le 30kms plus 15 roulant pour dérouler les jambes...2 ravitos + 1 arrivée.
- le 60 kms D+ 730m ...... CHT'I qui l'a pas fait , Y'A KA S' TAIRE!!!!! faisable en 3h30 pour un cyclo normal. 3 ravitos + 1.
bonne réception et à DIMANCHE
bye bye Pierre.."
Merci Pierre pour votre pub!
Conclusion ... French will abbreviate everything and everybody is welcome this Sunday in Lapugnoy.
That doesn't look real, actually.
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@khudzlin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
Well, I know there are some other languages with normative institutions. There's a Spanish language academy, for instance, iirc. I also know English doesn't have such institutions at all.
I think there's a section of the Russian Academy of Sciences devoted to normalization of Russian. But from what I've seen most of the borrowings of English words had to do with financial terms, though these have probably been replaced by native ones. Russian computer terms, as far as I can tell, are mostly native.
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@slavdude Latvian officially replaced "telephons" (telephone) with "tālrunis" (the diacritic doubles the length of the vowel)--"telephons" was too foreign. "Tāl" means "far", and "runat" is the verb "to speak". So it's basically a retranslation from the greek (telephone means basically the same thing).
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@luhmann I don't see what calling him a duck and mentioning his aunt's bathroom habits will accomplish
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I just realized the title's not "Le mobile malfunction". And that's after reading "Le mobile multifonction" (correctly) a few times in the thread.
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@luhmann said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@khudzlin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
That doesn't look real
Tant pis, c'est le cas, conard
You don't get to tell people what looks or sounds real in their own language. Misspelling the insult doesn't improve your credibility, either (it's spelled "connard").
@hungrier The word for "duck" is "canard" and "tant pis" means "too bad". In all of those words, the final consonant is mute, making "tant pis" quite different from "tante pisse" (there, the final E is mute, but forces the previous consonants to be pronounced).
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In Quebec we use "téléphone intelligent", which is a direct translation of smartphone.
Trust the Frenchs to come up with a stupid term like "Le mobile multifunction"
There is a bunch of official french words that came from Quebec's french language office, like "Pourriel" for spam.
It's a contraction of Pourris (rotten) and courriel (email).Another example is "courriel" for email, which is a contraction of "courrier" (mail) and "electronique". This is directly related to email, which is a contraction of "electronic mail".
From the article:
and a completely new word "infox" for fake news. Although it doesn't appear to have taken off, with the term "faux info" still far more common.
Edit: Another gem
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@topspin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
In German the situation is reversed.
We love using English words so much (because it sounds modern?) that we come up with stupid English phrases for everything. Or let's say the ad industry and a few other idiots do, to the point that most old people have no idea what these ads are trying to say, even if it's ads targeted at them.The "German" word for mobile phone is "Mobiltelefon", but instead we use the term "Handy", because we thinks that's the English word for it. Most English speakers are quite surprised if you want to give them a handy.
"Handy" is at least harmless.
I still remember going
over this:Yes. "Body Bag".
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@timebandit Yeah, I have to admit you Québec folks have come up with some nice words. For "fake news", I'd go with "intox", which existed long before the 'fake news' fad. Also, no one uses "fouineur" for "hacker", we use "pirate".
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@remi said in "Le mobile multifonction":
On the principle, since language is the basis with which all rules of our society are written (or expressed), it's not totally insane to have some form of norm or reference for it. I think in the English-speaking world there is a kind of consensus that the OED or some similar source can be used as a reference, even if they don't officially have any role.
That's descriptive, not normative, and hence different.
I think the Dutch language commission is descriptive for word use, but normative for spelling.
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@khudzlin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
You don't get to tell people
what looks or sounds real in their own language.what source they used
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Meanwhile in Canada, some purists complain about how Quebecois should pronounce PK Subban's name. (Hint: He pronounces his own name as you would in English.)
Pea-Kay Subban or Pay-Ka Subban? French-language group stirs debate | CBC News
A Quebec-language group is raising a stink over how to pronounce the name of Montreal Canadiens star defenceman P.K. Subban, arguing French broadcasters should say it the French way.
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@quijibo said in "Le mobile multifonction":
arguing French broadcasters should say it the French way
You NEVER translate people's name.
Hang those purists !
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@quijibo Call people whatever you want. I, for example, refuse to refer to Jay Z as anything other than Jay Zed. Mainly to annoy people who insist it should be Zee
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@timebandit said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@quijibo said in "Le mobile multifonction":
arguing French broadcasters should say it the French way
You NEVER translate people's name.
Hang those purists !
Actually, names of historical figures, such as monarchs, are usually translated. And current popes get the same treatment.
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@anotherusername said in "Le mobile multifonction":
I just realized the title's not "Le mobile malfunction". And that's after reading "Le mobile multifonction" (correctly) a few times in the thread.
Ceci n'est pas une iPhone
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@timebandit said in "Le mobile multifonction":
There is a bunch of official french words that came from Quebec's french language office, like "Pourriel" for spam.
It's a contraction of Pourris (rotten) and courriel (email).Well I suppose it's better than contracting all the various gendered spellings of the words - see else-thread.
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@timebandit said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@quijibo said in "Le mobile multifonction":
arguing French broadcasters should say it the French way
You NEVER translate people's name.
Hang those purists !
I agree. But part of the question is also, at which point a mis-pronunciation becomes a translation?
I can't write phonetic alphabet so I have trouble coming up with a simple example that I can express here... all I can come up with is how Japanese cannot pronounce consecutive consonants and therefore add intermediate vowels. So if they say "Turumpu" for "Trump", is that a translation of the name, or simply how they manage to pronounce it?
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@remi They totally can and do pronounce consecutive consonants, even in some native words; they just can't write it that way. They spell it "トランプ", or "TORANPU" (foreign words have their own alphabet called katakana; by convention, when rendering it in Latin letters, those words are in capitals while native hiragana words are in lowercase), but they pronounce it almost identically to Americans, with a diminished "u" at the end only if the following word phonetically requires it.
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@pleegwat said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@remi said in "Le mobile multifonction":
On the principle, since language is the basis with which all rules of our society are written (or expressed), it's not totally insane to have some form of norm or reference for it. I think in the English-speaking world there is a kind of consensus that the OED or some similar source can be used as a reference, even if they don't officially have any role.
That's descriptive, not normative, and hence different.
I think the Dutch language commission is descriptive for word use, but normative for spelling.
This makes a lot of sense.
Anyway, neither "mobile multifonction" nor "mobile intelligent" will ever catch on here, for a reason evoked in @Luhmann's post of questioned authenticity: "smartphone" is four syllables shorter. That makes it three times faster to pronounce, granting it an almost-automatic win in my book.
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@topspin said in "Le mobile multifonction":
Most English speakers are quite surprised if you want to give them a handy.
Go asking strangers for a handy, and you'll end up like
Alec GuinnessHerbert Pocket and Hugh Grant.
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OK. I got that wrong... Still, not entirely wrong for my argument, I guess:
@twelvebaud said in "Le mobile multifonction":
they pronounce it almost identically to Americans, with a diminished "u" at the end only if the following word phonetically requires it.
So, is "Trumpu" a mis-pronunciation (and therefore OK, in the sense that this is how it has to be said in Japanese), or a translation?
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@timebandit said in "Le mobile multifonction":
In Quebec we use "téléphone intelligent", which is a direct translation of smartphone.
How many syllables is that? Or for that matter, "Le mobile multifunction"?
"Smartphone" is two... "téléphone intelligent" would have to be what, at least four? (French, so I assume that about half of them are silent)
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@pjh said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@anotherusername said in "Le mobile multifonction":
I just realized the title's not "Le mobile malfunction". And that's after reading "Le mobile multifonction" (correctly) a few times in the thread.
Ceci n'est pas une iPhone
Hi can you translate to american pls? Txh.
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@anotherusername said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@pjh said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@anotherusername said in "Le mobile multifonction":
I just realized the title's not "Le mobile malfunction". And that's after reading "Le mobile multifonction" (correctly) a few times in the thread.
Ceci n'est pas une iPhone
Hi can you translate to american pls? Txh.
Filed Under: I expect you knew that, but not fitting the stereotypes is a
to jokes.
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@rhywden said in "Le mobile multifonction":
"Handy" is at least harmless.
I mean, yeah, if you were looking to get a handy anyway...
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@jaloopa said in "Le mobile multifonction":
@quijibo Call people whatever you want. I, for example, refuse to refer to Jay Z as anything other than Jay Zed. Mainly to annoy people who insist it should be Zee
I'll start using that.
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@anotherusername said in "Le mobile multifonction":
"Smartphone" is two... "téléphone intelligent" would have to be what, at least four?
I count seven...
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