We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...
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So we're trying to Cut the Cord here at Chez LolwhatTM. It looks like Roku in combo with PlayStation Vue covers ~95% of what we need - that is, watch/record/pause/rewind live and on-demand "cable" shows from certain channels that we absolutely "have to" have. The problem is, the missus "needs" her NFL and college basketball fix. OTA broadcasts would help meet that "requirement"... but there's no way to DVR those on Vue. Thusly, I'm looking for a DVR solution that at least comes close to the following requirements:
- handle HD (otherwise, I'd just find a fucking VCR)
- won't cost just as much as just keeping our current cable package - either upfront (looking at you, TiVo), or ongoing (TiVo again, Jesus Christ your subscription fees!)
- won't go tits-up in a year or less, and won't be a goddamn hassle to get serviced (latest revs of Magnavox DVRs have both of these problems apparently)
- can be used by people who aren't tech-savvy
- can watch, record, pause and/or rewind live TV, especially for sports channels we care about (Sling's DVR is cockblocked for everything Disney/ESPN - I guess a third-party DVR might take care of that, but then again, I'd probably be fucked by HDCP instead...)
- requires minimal setup, minimal additional hardware and minimal manually-done shit (HD Homerun requires extra hardware that we don't have, as well as special software running on that hardware)
- will record at least OTA shows, and perhaps "cable" shows over Vue or whatever
Also:
- We already have a digital antenna (plugs into co-ax).
- We don't need to do stuff with more than one OTA channel concurrently.
- We don't need to watch OTA shows on anything other than one TV in our house. We don't need a mobile app or remote viewability or any of that.
Please
to be doing the needfulhelp us stop handing over $1200/year to the Death Star.VCRs were so much simpler and cheaper than this...
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Hauppauge makes a bunch of inexpensive HD capture hardware, but they all (AFAIK) require a computer to operate and store the resulting files. I'm also not sure what device you'd need to buy to convert over-the-air to a HDMI or component input... do they make just OTA TV Tuners that don't happen to be packaged into TVs?
EDIT: actually Hauppauge has you covered there, too: http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_dualhd.html
Still requires a computer to operate though.
I googled HD DVRs but I'm not sure they even exist in a universal form-factor, all I can find is ones you have to order through your satellite or cable company.
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@lolwhat said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
the missus "needs" her NFL and college basketball fix.
How progressive!
I'd be interested to see if you already had a network-based tuner (You mentioned the HD Homerun, but I'm sure there are cheaper ones) that would work with Plex, which I believe matches what you're looking for. If your cable bill is anything like mine, you'd recoup the costs within three months.
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@tsaukpaetra We don't already have a network-based tuner. I was just using examples of products out on the market. All we have right now is a U-verse setup (TV service, DVR and receivers).
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@lolwhat said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
@tsaukpaetra We don't already have a network-based tuner. I was just using examples of products out on the market. All we have right now is a U-verse setup (TV service, DVR and receivers).
U-Verse? Well, speaking as a Tier-1 support rep, getting the content off of those is going to be a major pain.
If you have a Plex Pass and a supported tuner with accompanying HTPC I think you'll be set for life, but obviously if you don't have any of that your up-front costs will be somewhat hefty.
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@tsaukpaetra said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
getting the content off of those is going to be a major pain
Yeah, certainly, we're not expecting to be able to do that. If we do make the switch, we'll just watch whatever's left on the U-Verse DVR and then return it.
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This looks interesting:
Of course, supports unencrypted broadcasts only, but for $40 USD that's not bad...
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I use a Channel Master DVR+ for over the air broadcasts. It looks like this has been replaced with another model called Stream+ that integrates with streaming services in addition to serving as an over-the-air DVR, and I have no experience with that model, but it's something to look into.
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@devjoe That looks very interesting. It's in "preorder" phase, however, so if I order now, it won't ship until mid-April (according to the Channel Master site).
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@lolwhat have you ever looked in to MythTV?
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@polygeekery said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
@lolwhat have you ever looked in to MythTV?
I looked into it briefly to use with my HDHomeRun. I'm pretty convinced that MythTV is impossible to use.
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@heterodox said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
I'm pretty convinced that MythTV is impossible to use.
You just need to appeal to the right gods.
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@hardwaregeek said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
You just need to appeal to the right gods.
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@heterodox I have not used it for a very long time. Back in the day I had a DVR box with a few capture cards in it that ran MythTV. I do remember it being extremely fussy to configure. Typical Linux usability from 10+ years ago. I had hoped they would have improved that.
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@polygeekery Cue blakeyrant...
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@lolwhat Well, the MythTV box was a definite improvement over the Windows DVR I ran before it. It had the annoying habit of not recording in the background. So it would start recording and play the show in full screen mode when it did so. This annoyed my roommate at the time if I forgot to turn off my speakers before I left my office.
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@polygeekery said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
I had hoped they would have improved that.
They absolutely have not.
@polygeekery said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
Well, the MythTV box was a definite improvement over the Windows DVR I ran before it.
That's surprising because Windows Media Center was incredibly easy to use for me and never had any problems that I recall. Then Microsoft fucking ditched it. Cocksuckers. Was trying to get MythTV set up as a replacement.
Edit: One of the big problems with any "free" DVR is there's no real free, public feed of TV listings that I'm aware of. The best options are scripts that Web scrape or signing up with an account for one of the more-public-but-still-not-quite services and trying to get it to import regularly into MythTV's format.
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@heterodox said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
That's surprising because Windows Media Center was incredibly easy to use for me and never had any problems that I recall.
This was before WMC.
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Hmm. It looks like the two things you care the most about here are the ability to pick up broadcast, and to DVR stuff. Have you looked at AirTV from Sling? It does both of those, among other things. I can't personally recommend it, as I haven't used one myself, but I've heard good things about it.
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@lolwhat I'm pretty sure there's a Roku NFL channel. I used PSV for a while and can recommend it for what it is. Also, Plex has DVR capabilities now. I haven't messed around with that, but there's a Roku app for Plex (which I use daily)
Have fun.
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@heterodox said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
One of the big problems with any "free" DVR is there's no real free, public feed of TV listings that I'm aware of. The best options are scripts that Web scrape or signing up with an account for one of the more-public-but-still-not-quite services and trying to get it to import regularly into MythTV's format.
That's why Schedule Direct was created. It cost about $20/year (last time I used it).
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@lolwhat said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
The problem is, the missus "needs" her NFL and college basketball fix.
The NFL solution is to become a Cleveland Browns fan. College basketball I don't follow, but I'm sure there's at least one Browns-esque team to be a fan of.
@lolwhat said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
help us stop handing over $1200/year to the Death Star.
Damn, only $1200 a year? I'm spending a little over $1800 for basic HD cable with no frills.
I'm in the same boat as you. I'm similarly an NFL fan, and not a Browns fan, so I sympathize with missus. I was looking into MythTV but I'm glad I read the replies here first.
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@timebandit I'm aware of that service; that's why I said "free".
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@captain said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
I'm pretty sure there's a Roku NFL channel.
Yeah, they have Sunday Ticket... but it doesn't give you every game, nor even all the games we'd like to watch.
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@heterodox said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
that's why I said "free"
At $20/year, it's almost free
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@lolwhat If I'm not mistaken, the official NFL cord cutter solution is to subscribe to the NFL's service.
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@weng Vue offers ESPN and other mouse-related channels, as well as NFL Network (I think). We can get CBS, Fox and NBC with digital rabbit ears. We don't need to be able to see many teams play - just da Bears if they're on, and the Colts (the local team).
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@the_quiet_one said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
@lolwhat said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
help us stop handing over $1200/year to the Death Star.
Damn, only $1200 a year? I'm spending a little over $1800 for basic HD cable with no frills.
Holy shit, I never realised TV was so expensive in the US!
Over here, on top of most free channels you might have to pay 15/20 EUR/month to get cable, which is about $250-300/year, for sports and/or Disney, movies etc. OK, if you really go wild and take all possible packages you might end up at 50 EUR/month, but that's still only about $700/year. I think that most of Western Europe will have similar prices.
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@remi two possibilities:
1.) You have actual competition between cable companies which lowers prices. Here most cable TV is served by a monopoly. Their only competition is with satellite and cord cutters.
2.) They are subsidized which means you ARE paying more than your bill through tax dollars. For some reason EU folks who pay 60+% of their income in taxes think they are getting a bargain in their tax subsidized services compared to the US. I don't get that line of thinking.
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@the_quiet_one said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
@remi two possibilities:
1.) You have actual competition between cable companies which lowers prices. Here most cable TV is served by a monopoly. Their only competition is with satellite and cord cutters.
There is some competition, and there is competition between cable and satellite (although some business sell both, with slightly different names, so obviously they don't compete with themselves...). Sports is the most obvious one, there's been a sort of war going on since a few years between 2-3 networks to get football rights, in at least 2 EU countries that I know of.
If that really is the source of the difference, I find it amusing that European countries would have a better working competition-driven market than the US.
2.) They are subsidized which means you ARE paying more than your bill through tax dollars. For some reason EU folks who pay 60+% of their income in taxes think they are getting a bargain in their tax subsidized services compared to the US. I don't get that line of thinking.
I don't think that's the case, but of course with subsidies to complex industries it's sometimes very hard to even know that they exist (they're wrapped in so many different ways that they're not obvious to the consumer). Still, they probably don't get order of magnitudes more subsidies than any other industry.
Also, before getting into garage territory, remember that subsidies are not necessarily and automatically a bad thing (for example, I live in the countryside and without subsidies I have zero chance of ever getting high-speed internet -- and I am aware that these subsidies come in part from the taxes that I pay myself, but were it not for that no telco would ever bother trying to get enough advance subscriptions from the area to pay for the installation cost...).
(and just in case you said that with a serious face: you're aware that the 60%+ figure, if it's correct, also includes health services and retirement, which Americans also pay, but not in taxes...)
(and also, inb4 someone else says it, the difference in price may also be related to some intrinsic differences in cost such as the population density etc. -- I'm not saying Americans necessarily get ripped up, just that you pay more)
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@the_quiet_one said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
They are subsidized which means you ARE paying more than your bill through tax dollars. For some reason EU folks who pay 60+% of their income in taxes think they are getting a bargain in their tax subsidized services compared to the US. I don't get that line of thinking.
When I had cable, I paid about $70/month, which comes to $840/year.
And this is in Canadian money
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@timebandit said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
And this is in Canadian money
So about a fiver
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@jaloopa said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
@timebandit said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
And this is in Canadian money
So about a fiver
No, a pair of cheap summer retreads…
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@jaloopa said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
@timebandit said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
And this is in Canadian money
So about a fiver
Or 2 beers
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@remi said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
Over here, on top of most free channels you might have to pay 15/20 EUR/month to get cable, which is about $250-300/year, for sports and/or Disney, movies etc. OK, if you really go wild and take all possible packages you might end up at 50 EUR/month, but that's still only about $700/year. I think that most of Western Europe will have similar prices.
How many channels is that? In the US I'd guess the count is about 200 or so (though I haven't counted).
@remi said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
If that really is the source of the difference, I find it amusing that European countries would have a better working competition-driven market than the US.
I think geography has a lot to do with this. Still, there are two big satellite providers here. Locally I have Verizon FiOS and there's a cable company in addition to the satellite guys.
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@boomzilla said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
How many channels is that? In the US I'd guess the count is about 200 or so (though I haven't counted).
I have no idea, because I don't watch more than maybe 5-10 max (so I don't even have those cable/satellite packages). Probably a bit less, but if you add everything, maybe not that much less. Also, out of your 200, how many are telemarketing channels with 0 interest (and about the same viewership figures), or replay channels (the UK has a few "+1" channels), or local broadcast of a national franchise (isn't that how TV/radio works in the US?)?
Overall, I think the US probably has more. But I'm not sure you can simply say that the price is (should be) proportional to the number of channels, it's a long-tailed distribution where the top ones make all the price and the rest is just crap bundled with it for free...
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@remi said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
Also, out of your 200, how many are telemarketing channels with 0 interest (and about the same viewership figures), or replay channels (the UK has a few "+1" channels), or local broadcast of a national franchise (isn't that how TV/radio works in the US?)?
There are a handful of shopping channels and local broadcast. The total is probably less than 20. I don't know what a "replay channel" is.
@remi said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
Overall, I think the US probably has more. But I'm not sure you can simply say that the price is (should be) proportional to the number of channels, it's a long-tailed distribution where the top ones make all the price and the rest is just crap bundled with it for free...
I agree, but I was curious. And I certainly don't watch all of them, but it's like talking about Excel. Even if individual people only use 20% of the features those individual 20%s look a lot different.
Also, some of those channels are good for slow Sunday afternoons when you have nothing better to do than sit around and drink beer and watch odd shows you wouldn't normally watch. Not that I couldn't get by without them.
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@boomzilla Replay channels is something I've seen in the UK, you have a channel Foo and channel Foo+1, which is just channel Foo time-shifted by 1 hour. It doesn't make much sense with recorders and TV on demand and all that, I know.
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@remi Oh, yeah, the premium channels (e.g., HBO) tend to do that, so you have an East and West coast version. Flyover country just has to suck it up.
Local network channels will use whatever makes sense for them but most channels just show stuff at a particular time and you adjust based on your time zone.
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@boomzilla yeah I forgot you've got several time zones. It does make some sense then. For a single TZ country, it's much less useful.
Anyway, I guess that channels are basically free to create (up to some limit, and for those who already have some), so it's probably a good way to scrape a few more views from those who don't get in front of their TV in time...
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@boomzilla said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
Also, some of those channels are good for slow Sunday afternoons when you have nothing better to do than sit around and drink beer and watch odd shows you wouldn't normally watch
I sometimes watch the utter shit on Movies4Men. It's like a MST3K channel
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@jaloopa said in We want to cut the cord, but everyone wants a fuckload of money...:
It's like a MST3K channel
The Good Ideas thread is
Amazon.com: ViewTV ATSC Digital Converter Box for TV, HDMI Cable Recording PVR Function Output USB LED Timer Display AT-300 : Electronics
Schedules Direct - MythTV Official Wiki
NFL Sunday Ticket - Wikipedia
