Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2
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@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I can't think of a reason to remove the jack, but maybe there is one?
“The audio connector is more than 100 years old, It had its last big innovation about 50 years ago. You know what that was? They made it smaller. It hasn’t been touched since then. It’s a dinosaur. It’s time to move on.”
Greg Joswiak, Apple executive
In other news, Apple created a car without wheels
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@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
higher audio quality because it's digital, not analog
Now, if only our ears could be made digital
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Apple Maps
So you ended up on the wrong side of the country?
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@jaloopa said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Apple Maps
So you ended up on the wrong side of the country?
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@anonymous234 said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Yes, they definitely should add a second port. But no one's trying to make you go wireless.
Apple certainly is, marketing those ridiculous earbuds. And if they actually are moving to USB C then the cart is way ahead of the horse - no major headphone manufacturers seem to have caught on, not even as an option (which it would have to be, since neither most PCs nor other audio equipment have the C ports). So you either buy headphones with a regular jack and screw around with dongles, or buy one of the few USB C headphones and also screw around with dongles.
Onboard the new standard properly, actually get manufacturers on board, wait until it's fully adopted into midrange laptops and PCs, and then try removing the jack. Maybe. Or just don't, because there's pretty much no advantage to USB C over the jack.
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@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
waterproofing
Fuck that noise. They used that excuse to get rid of removable batteries, SD cards, now the headphone jack. Three features dropped for nothing, because really, how often do you soak your phone in water?
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@weng said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ Is wireless charging going to keep up with powering a phone running a GPS and streaming music in a car on a roadtrip? Because real chargers have problems with that.
And Bluetooth can get fucked.
I did that on my Lumia 950 just fine - Spotify with audio over BT and the Maps app running. On a longer trip I even had a completely charged phone afterwards.
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I wouldn't mind giving up the headphone jack iff I could trade it for manufacturers leaving the FM radio capabilities active for all phones regardless of the region it's shipped to. There's no reason that "dumbphones" can have radio, but "smartphones" can't.
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@sumireko said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
There's no reason that "dumbphones" can have radio, but "smartphones" can't.
dumbphones don't have apple/google music capability
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@gąska said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
TBH, I don't remember when was the last time I plugged anything into my phone's jack. Certainly not in the last two years. But then, I don't listen to music.
Oh wait, so now that not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google, now it’s all right, but when Apple did this a year ago and said they were “courageous” to do so, because they knew they’d get a lot of bad rap for it, it was a stupid idea?
I’m confused.
It is still unacceptable to me, and I'll always chose a phone with a phone jack and FM radio over anything else.
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@sumireko said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I wouldn't mind giving up the headphone jack iff I could trade it for manufacturers leaving the FM radio capabilities active for all phones regardless of the region it's shipped to. There's no reason that "dumbphones" can have radio, but "smartphones" can't.
Of course there's a reason: The requirements for the antenna are quite a bit different.
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@blakeyrat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@gąska I use the bluetooth thing for podcasts, but it barely works. Constantly have to fiddling with it, or restart the phone, or tell the car to reconnect, or whatever. Bluetooth is satan tech.
Then either your phone is horrible crap, or your car's system is. I do the exact same thing, and I literally never have trouble with the Bluetooth link.
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@masonwheeler Or! A third option: bluetooth is horrible crap!
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@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
from what I've read, its:
- waterproofing (s7/s8 are waterproof with a headphone jack, so /shrug)
So yeah, not a valid reason.
- thinner phone (iphone 7 and pixel 2 aren't thinner than the previous versions, so...)
True. Also, this is not a positive feature. With as small as phones are these days, making them thinner means making them more fragile. (Apple has been having trouble with this for several years now already, and they want to make it even worse?!? What a bunch of iDiots!)
- more size for battery (I'm no electronics designer so I can't speak to this. maybe it lets you rearrange stuff)
It's possible, but considering how long a headphone plug is compared to a phone, the difference would be marginal at best.
- (apple only) higher audio quality because it's digital, not analog
Nope. All you're doing is moving the digital/analog converter from one point to another. (And in the stupidest possible way, too: now you're moving it out of the expensive phone, which is expected to be expensive and so you can afford a good DAC, and into the headphones, which are meant to be cheap and disposable. Therefore, this is likely to bring lower audio quality in most cases.)
I think the secret one that they're not talking about is
- it's a little extra profit!
Yup. Move off an open standard to a proprietary one and you get to rake in the cash by screwing over your customers and the 3rd-party ecosystem.
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@blakeyrat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@masonwheeler Or! A third option: bluetooth is horrible crap!
...according to a sample size of one, which directly contradicts observed reality. So no, I think it's safe to reject your "third option."
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@masonwheeler said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Move off an open standard to a proprietary one and you get to rake in the cash by screwing over your customers and the 3rd-party ecosystem.
When did USB-C become proprietary?
Unless you're talking about Apple...
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@masonwheeler said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@blakeyrat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@masonwheeler Or! A third option: bluetooth is horrible crap!
...according to a sample size of one, which directly contradicts observed reality. So no, I think it's safe to reject your "third option."
Make that a sample size of 2.
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@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
When did USB-C become proprietary?
Even if USB is an open standard, the protocol you use to move sound data over it doesn't necessarily have to be. (Not sure if this is the plan, but it wouldn't be too surprising.)
Unless you're talking about Apple...
Yes.
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Given how many people I know with phones wrapped in giant brick sized battery cases that would swallow my Nexus 6P thrice, "save space" arguments are pretty null.
Incidentally, that crowd includes EVERYBODY I know with a non-Apple non-Samsung flagship except myself.
And I've thought long and hard about it.
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@masonwheeler said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
When did USB-C become proprietary?
Even if USB is an open standard, the protocol you use to move sound data over it doesn't necessarily have to be. (Not sure if this is the plan, but it wouldn't be too surprising.)
Unless you're talking about Apple...
Yes.
It appears that it is an open standard (the link takes you to the audio standard, even if the description doesn't say so :) )
Apple's, on the other hand..
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@weng said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Given how many people I know with phones wrapped in giant brick sized battery cases that would swallow my Nexus 6P thrice, "save space" arguments are pretty null.
Incidentally, that crowd includes EVERYBODY I know with a non-Apple non-Samsung flagship except myself.
And I've thought long and hard about it.
I hate those cases. I would never be able to stand using one...
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@sloosecannon For all the damned pins in USB-C I wouldn't have been surprised if they threw in a bunch of analog audio channels
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@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@weng said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Given how many people I know with phones wrapped in giant brick sized battery cases that would swallow my Nexus 6P thrice, "save space" arguments are pretty null.
Incidentally, that crowd includes EVERYBODY I know with a non-Apple non-Samsung flagship except myself.
And I've thought long and hard about it.
I hate those cases. I would never be able to stand using one...
It requires a lifestyle adjustment. The phone is never in your pocket. Always either your hand, or sitting on a convenient surface.
Or outerwear with big pockets.
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@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
It appears that it is an open standard (the link takes you to the audio standard, even if the description doesn't say so )
given the way DRM is going I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years spotify, youtube etc all use some encrypted digital audio signal that can only be played by certified headphones...
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@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
It appears that it is an open standard (the link takes you to the audio standard, even if the description doesn't say so )
given the way DRM is going I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years spotify, youtube etc all use some encrypted digital audio signal that can only be played by certified headphones...
Wouldn't be that hard to hack, not if they wanted to keep headphones small. Next question - can they extend their license-to-use bullshit to the audio signal?
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@sockpuppet7 said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@gąska said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
TBH, I don't remember when was the last time I plugged anything into my phone's jack. Certainly not in the last two years. But then, I don't listen to music.
Oh wait, so now that not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google, now it’s all right, but when Apple did this a year ago and said they were “courageous” to do so, because they knew they’d get a lot of bad rap for it, it was a stupid idea?
I’m confused.
It is still unacceptable to me, and I'll always chose a phone with a phone jack and FM radio over anything else.
Weird. It's been decades since I voluntarily listened to FM radio...
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@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@masonwheeler said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
When did USB-C become proprietary?
Even if USB is an open standard, the protocol you use to move sound data over it doesn't necessarily have to be. (Not sure if this is the plan, but it wouldn't be too surprising.)
Unless you're talking about Apple...
Yes.
It appears that it is an open standard (the link takes you to the audio standard, even if the description doesn't say so :) )
Apple's, on the other hand..
Article:
The engineering specification states that a 3.5 mm analog headset jack should not replace a USB-C plug.
Who in their right minds would ever try to use a headphone jack for USB?!?!
Filed under: Oh wait...
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@pie_flavor said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sloosecannon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
It appears that it is an open standard (the link takes you to the audio standard, even if the description doesn't say so )
given the way DRM is going I wouldn't be surprised if in 5 years spotify, youtube etc all use some encrypted digital audio signal that can only be played by certified headphones...
Wouldn't be that hard to hack, not if they wanted to keep headphones small. Next question - can they extend their license-to-use bullshit to the audio signal?
Dolby.
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@maciejasjmj said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
waterproofing
Fuck that noise. They used that excuse to get rid of removable batteries, SD cards, now the headphone jack. Three features dropped for nothing, because really, how often do you soak your phone in water?
Not true, at least that’s my understanding. Removable battery and SD card slots were never an option with Apple and the jack had to go because of the camera in 7 Plus.
Unless you’re not talking about Apple here.
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@maciejasjmj said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@bb36e said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
waterproofing
Fuck that noise. They used that excuse to get rid of removable batteries, SD cards, now the headphone jack. Three features dropped for nothing, because really, how often do you soak your phone in water?
Not true, at least that’s my understanding. Removable battery and SD card slots were never an option with Apple and the jack had to go because of the camera in 7 Plus.
Unless you’re not talking about Apple here.
He's not. Apple usually doesn't even give an excuse, they just say "fuck you, that's why"
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@gąska said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@gąska said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
TBH, I don't remember when was the last time I plugged anything into my phone's jack. Certainly not in the last two years. But then, I don't listen to music.
Oh wait, so now that not only Apple does that but also (IIRC) HTC and Google, now it’s all right, but when Apple did this a year ago and said they were “courageous” to do so, because they knew they’d get a lot of bad rap for it, it was a stupid idea?
I’m confused.
You’re right, I read your post in such a hurry I didn’t even notice the last sentence. Douché, sir.
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@sumireko said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I wouldn't mind giving up the headphone jack iff I could trade it for manufacturers leaving the FM radio capabilities active for all phones regardless of the region it's shipped to. There's no reason that "dumbphones" can have radio, but "smartphones" can't.
Yes there is. They're abandoning the antenna connector on smartphones.
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@timebandit said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
In other news, Apple created a car without wheels
OMG !!! A flying car !!!
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@jaloopa said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Apple Maps
So you ended up on the wrong side of the country?
Either that, or in a large body of water.
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@pleegwat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sumireko said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I wouldn't mind giving up the headphone jack iff I could trade it for manufacturers leaving the FM radio capabilities active for all phones regardless of the region it's shipped to. There's no reason that "dumbphones" can have radio, but "smartphones" can't.
Yes there is. They're abandoning the antenna connector on smartphones.
Not to mention that my Lumia did have a FM receiver. But using the FM receiver required plugging in a headphone - I'm guessing that it acted as the antenna.
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@rhywden said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@pleegwat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sumireko said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I wouldn't mind giving up the headphone jack iff I could trade it for manufacturers leaving the FM radio capabilities active for all phones regardless of the region it's shipped to. There's no reason that "dumbphones" can have radio, but "smartphones" can't.
Yes there is. They're abandoning the antenna connector on smartphones.
Not to mention that my Lumia did have a FM receiver. But using the FM receiver required plugging in a headphone - I'm guessing that it acted as the antenna.
That's exactly what I mean. Receiving FM requires quite a long antenna since the wavelength is so long, so typically the headphone cord is used for it.
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@pleegwat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@rhywden said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@pleegwat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sumireko said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I wouldn't mind giving up the headphone jack iff I could trade it for manufacturers leaving the FM radio capabilities active for all phones regardless of the region it's shipped to. There's no reason that "dumbphones" can have radio, but "smartphones" can't.
Yes there is. They're abandoning the antenna connector on smartphones.
Not to mention that my Lumia did have a FM receiver. But using the FM receiver required plugging in a headphone - I'm guessing that it acted as the antenna.
That's exactly what I mean. Receiving FM requires quite a long antenna since the wavelength is so long, so typically the headphone cord is used for it.
Does the cord have to be as long as the wave?
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@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@pleegwat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@rhywden said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@pleegwat said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@sumireko said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
I wouldn't mind giving up the headphone jack iff I could trade it for manufacturers leaving the FM radio capabilities active for all phones regardless of the region it's shipped to. There's no reason that "dumbphones" can have radio, but "smartphones" can't.
Yes there is. They're abandoning the antenna connector on smartphones.
Not to mention that my Lumia did have a FM receiver. But using the FM receiver required plugging in a headphone - I'm guessing that it acted as the antenna.
That's exactly what I mean. Receiving FM requires quite a long antenna since the wavelength is so long, so typically the headphone cord is used for it.
Does the cord have to be as long as the wave?
With less "dumb" antennae styles no, but for cheap and dirty headphones that are usually at least three feet long it's almost just fine...
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@kt_ Thankfully not, as FM radio has a wavelength of ~3 meters. Although requiring antenna length of the same size as the wave would make for very interesting antennas for communication on the VLF band (100-10km wavelength).
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@Tsaukpaetra and @Atazhaia got
d! :D
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@atazhaia said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ Thankfully not, as FM radio has a wavelength of ~3 meters. Although requiring antenna length of the same size as the wave would make for very interesting antennas for communication on the VLF band (100-10km wavelength).
Yeah, I'm probably misremembering my college teaching on this subject...
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@atazhaia said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
FM radio has a wavelength of ~3 meters. Although requiring antenna length of the same size as the wave
The antenna is a fraction of a wavelength, generally either 1/4 or 1/2, depending on the type of antenna. However, the physical size of the antenna need not be the same as the electrical length; there are various ways of reducing the physical size of the antenna (or increasing the electrical length of an antenna of a given size, depending on how you want to look at it). Also, matching the length is much more important for a transmitting antenna than for receiving; a mismatched antenna will be less efficient, but often any random length of wire will work well enough.
(That reminds me, I need to renew my Ham license as soon as I get a real address.)
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@dcon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@jaloopa said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@kt_ said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
Apple Maps
So you ended up on the wrong side of the country?
Either that, or in a large body of water.
Ah, now the waterproofing starts to make sense.
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@dcon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@timebandit said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
In other news, Apple created a car without wheels
OMG !!! A flying car !!!
If being propped up on bricks is flying, we're all geniuses!
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@dkf said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@dcon said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
@timebandit said in Google following Apple's lead: No headphone jack in Pixel 2:
In other news, Apple created a car without wheels
OMG !!! A flying car !!!
If being propped up on bricks is flying, we're all geniuses!
You're right - I goofed.
OMG !!! A HOVER car !!!
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This can be the "Google Pixel: Can These Morons Do Anything Right? Spoiler: No" topic
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@hungrier See, that's what I like about Apple: They have a store where I can go to and complain about such issues. Granted, this may or may not be helpful (though my experience actually tends to the former option) but at least you get a sympathetic person.
With Google you only get a glorified mailing list.
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Google made good phones up until they changed the branding to Pixel it seems. Nexus gave awesome features at good prices. Pixel has been a row of disappointments. I've already switched to a different brand of Android, but iPhone is feeling more and more tempting, even though I find iOS inferior.
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@Atazhaia I hear that Pixel 3A is a pretty good phone. Good camera, clean Android, affordable price. Basically a Nexus.
USB-C - Wikipedia
