iOS 11 Thread
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@anotherusername said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
Ok, if Bluetooth/WiFi could still be successfully turned off from the settings menu, this would be a minor wtf. But I have to remember every day to turn it back off?
As I read it, they reactivate at 5 AM local time if you toggle them off in the Control Center -- the meaningless soft switches that just hide nearby devices or networks, but doesn't actually turn Bluetooth or WiFi off. If you toggle them off in Settings (which is actually the only way to really turn them off), then it sounds like they should stay turned off.
That would make much more sense.
It's somewhat less stupid, but it still doesn't make much sense. I can't think of any good reasons to turn those switches back on every morning, if the user turned them off. Does their alarm clock app require either bluetooth or wi-fi to wake them up? I mean, sure, "internet radio alarm clock" might be a thing, but it should have a ringtone to fall back to if you forget and leave the wi-fi turned off...
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@anotherusername It's quite easy to turn WiFi off because of some kind of hick-up, forget to turn it back on, and discover at the end of the following day that you wasted your entire mobile data allowance on app updates and YouTube.
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@grunnen said in iOS 11 Thread:
you wasted your entire mobile data allowance on app updates
Android has a setting to only download updates on WiFi
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@timebandit iOS too. It also refuses to download new apps larger than 100MB through mobile data. There are still many ways to quickly consume a lot of data if you forget you're not on WiFi. I've fallen into this trap myself a couple of times.
I guess the turning back on when changing location has the same reason. I guess it is made for the scenario where you quickly turn off e.g. the flaky public wifi in the coffee shop -- you probably want it on again when you arrive at home.
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@timebandit said in iOS 11 Thread:
@grunnen said in iOS 11 Thread:
you wasted your entire mobile data allowance on app updates
Android has a setting to only download updates on WiFi
iOS does too, but it doesn’t fix this. YouTube might burn your data plan if you don’t notice you disconnected ;)
ETA
d like shit.But yeah, to me it looks like they decided that people don’t turn WiFi back on only by mistake. I want to agree with them, though there were some people in the “buttons don’t do what supposed to” thread that proved me wrong. However, if it’s like @anotherusername says: that the 5 AM thingy is for control center, this makes a lot of sense. You turn stuff off from control center only for the moment, only to disconnect. If you want more, go into airplane mode or the settings.
Actually, this makes a lot of sense. It makes sure that people who turn WiFi off on the go just to disconnect can still connect, even if they forget to turn it back on, while people who don’t want WiFi on can still opt out permanently via a bit harder way but still acceptable, since it’s a one-off for them. It’s almost as if they thought this trough…
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iOS 11: toggling wifi and Bluetooth in Control Centre doesn't actually turn them off
Quick switch simply disconnects phone from access points and devices rather than turning off the radios, in move criticised by security researchers
This one says 5am is for both control center and settings app.
It also talks about the hijack bug in Bluetooth in Android/Windows without mentioning it was already fixed in iOS when the researchers found this out.
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
iOS 11: toggling wifi and Bluetooth in Control Centre doesn't actually turn them off
Quick switch simply disconnects phone from access points and devices rather than turning off the radios, in move criticised by security researchers
This one says 5am is for both control center and settings app.
It also talks about the hijack bug in Bluetooth in Android/Windows without mentioning it was already fixed in iOS when the researchers found this out.
Apple’s docs say differently, that the 5 AM thingy is only for control center:
Another win for @anotherusername.
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@jaloopa said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
1 is hard, because this hate doesn’t really stem from real discussions, it stems from Apple’s marketing and you know what? Fuck you. Marketing is always supposed to sound this way, this is how you do it
It may be confirmation bias, but I seem to see more people blindly repeating marketing type stuff as if it's real from Apple people rather than Android. That is, it's not just marketing when it's what you hear from the users as well.
Well, this can be true, because Apple has a strong lifestyle brand. Still, I only once in my life did I speak with this type of moron. Of course that’s probably because there are much fewer Apple users here in Poland than e.g. in the UK. That’s why YMV so much, I guess.
The company I work for is Apple-based. So I hear the "XXX is coming!!!" and "I've got to get that" muttered throughout the office before/after Apple's big announcements. Which, of course, are live-streamed to the projector in the cafeteria. Windows big things? Yeah, not so much... (On the plus side, that means I control my machine. No domains here!)
That's why I tend to mock the lemming-like attitude of Apple users. I'm not denying they make solid stuff - they absolutely do. It's that I-hear-the-marketing-and-bow-down-before-it attitude. Toby faire, that's a small percentage of the Apple users I know. And admittedly, once you're in any ecosystem, it's far easier to stay in it.
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@tsaukpaetra well, that is true, you need internet access to transfer files off of the device. It’s strange you didn’t have it.
I believe what you’re talking about is fallback: Internet -> Bluetooth -> file transfer.
Hearing your story, wouldn’t it have been easier to unfuck her internet connection?
Out of curiosity, do wires work? When I plug my phone into USB, it simply shows up on Windows as another device. I can now click down into the file system and simply copy files as normal.
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@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
Out of curiosity, do wires work? When I plug my phone into USB, it simply shows up on Windows as another device. I can now click down into the file system and simply copy files as normal.
AFAIK, iPhones don't show up as mass storage devices. The only way to get data on and off them is via iTunes
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
because how do you make people realize how great Apple is at UX?
I'm still scarred from my experience of trying to use a Mac 20 years ago, honestly.
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
There is one thing that is being repeated a lot: too many models. I second that. Apple has now like 8 phones on sale. That’s a lot, too many.
A friend was telling me yesterday that the 5S is actually still on sale. Considering how quickly Apple obsoletes things, I was frankly surprised... (A friend of hers was replacing her phone)
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@kt_ Huh. I didn't know Braun did more than shavers... (of course, I never bothered looking either)
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@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
I didn't know Braun did more than shavers
They also make a really important device
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@timebandit Oh, yeah. Forgot about those. And I used to have one...
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@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
And I used to have one
Same here. And it was rock solid. I used it about 20 hours a day for a couple years before it died
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@dcon Yeah, the Apple marketing is total bullshit. They spend words upon words to describe how amazing their products are, including basic features expected of any product in the segment. I wish they could focus on talking about the key features they want to promote and do it in short and simple paragraphs.
And yeah, they do make solid products. Even though they have made some weird decisions, I still think they make the best laptops. I wish they could be less courageous, however, and have sane ports on them and not drop their good tech (like MagSafe) just for the sake of being
specialdifferent. Like what does it hurt to have a couple normal USB ports and a dedicated power connector instead of an all-ports-does-everything design? But yeah, unless they do something incredibly stupid, my next personal laptop will be a MacBook Pro to replace my old MacBook Air.Still wont stop me from making fun of them, though, because they are a very easy target for that. :P
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@atazhaia said in iOS 11 Thread:
I wish they could be less courageous, however, and have sane ports on them and not drop their good tech (like MagSafe) just for the sake of
beingselling adapters.specialdifferentFTFY
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@tsaukpaetra well, that is true, you need internet access to transfer files off of the device. It’s strange you didn’t have it.
I believe what you’re talking about is fallback: Internet -> Bluetooth -> file transfer.
Hearing your story, wouldn’t it have been easier to unfuck her internet connection?
As explained, no. In fact, the first thing that was tried (though no detail was given, sorry I assumed doing it the easy way first was obvious) was to just download the document from the original source, but as mentioned, broken Internet.
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@jaloopa said in iOS 11 Thread:
@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
Out of curiosity, do wires work? When I plug my phone into USB, it simply shows up on Windows as another device. I can now click down into the file system and simply copy files as normal.
AFAIK, iPhones don't show up as mass storage devices. The only way to get data on and off them is via iTunes
No, they show up as a Camera. Because that makes so much sense.
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@grunnen said in iOS 11 Thread:
I guess it is made for the scenario where you quickly turn off e.g. the flaky public wifi in the coffee shop -- you probably want it on again when you arrive at home.
If that wifi network's too crummy to be worth connecting to, just tell it to forget that network, and it won't connect to it unless you change your mind and tell it to.
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@jaloopa said in iOS 11 Thread:
@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
Out of curiosity, do wires work? When I plug my phone into USB, it simply shows up on Windows as another device. I can now click down into the file system and simply copy files as normal.
AFAIK, iPhones don't show up as mass storage devices. The only way to get data on and off them is via iTunes
You can get photos off as mass storage, as @Tsaukpaetra mentioned.
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@boomzilla said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
because how do you make people realize how great Apple is at UX?
I'm still scarred from my experience of trying to use a Mac 20 years ago, honestly.
Out of interest, what went that wrong that you are still scarred?
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@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
There is one thing that is being repeated a lot: too many models. I second that. Apple has now like 8 phones on sale. That’s a lot, too many.
A friend was telling me yesterday that the 5S is actually still on sale. Considering how quickly Apple obsoletes things, I was frankly surprised... (A friend of hers was replacing her phone)
I don’t think you can still buy it from Apple. Maybe they meant iPhone SE which looks like 5S?
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@timebandit said in iOS 11 Thread:
@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
And I used to have one
Same here. And it was rock solid. I used it about 20 hours a day for a couple years before it died
If you used it 20 hours a day it’s a miracle it’s not you who died!
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@boomzilla said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
because how do you make people realize how great Apple is at UX?
I'm still scarred from my experience of trying to use a Mac 20 years ago, honestly.
Out of interest, what went that wrong that you are still scarred?
Just...nothing made sense about the way the software worked.
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@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@tsaukpaetra well, that is true, you need internet access to transfer files off of the device. It’s strange you didn’t have it.
I believe what you’re talking about is fallback: Internet -> Bluetooth -> file transfer.
Hearing your story, wouldn’t it have been easier to unfuck her internet connection?
Out of curiosity, do wires work? When I plug my phone into USB, it simply shows up on Windows as another device. I can now click down into the file system and simply copy files as normal.
Plugged in by USB, you can copy pictures/videos off an iPhone from Windows Explorer. For everything else, there's iTunes.
The other options are email or a cloud-based storage option, e.g. DropBox. But both of those would require wifi/cellular data to upload, and a solid internet connection on the PC you're downloading them to.
I've used a wifi transfer app that ran an HTTP service on the phone (only when the app was in the foreground), but I think it only worked for pictures. I'd imagine it could work for files, too, but then you need both the phone and the computer to be on the same wifi connection (and the wifi router's privacy mode has to be turned off).
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@tsaukpaetra said in iOS 11 Thread:
@jaloopa said in iOS 11 Thread:
@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
Out of curiosity, do wires work? When I plug my phone into USB, it simply shows up on Windows as another device. I can now click down into the file system and simply copy files as normal.
AFAIK, iPhones don't show up as mass storage devices. The only way to get data on and off them is via iTunes
No, they show up as a Camera. Because that makes so much sense.
I'm pretty sure it shows up as a storage device, not a camera. But it does only show the pictures and videos, so effectively it's a camera.
You could always tell when you plugged something in and it identified itself as a camera, because (at least under Windows XP) the Windows Explorer support for devices that identified as "cameras" was godawful (it worked, but let me see if I can remember... it was horribly slow, it didn't show any filenames by default, oh and I think I remember that if you closed the Explorer window while files were copying or moving, it'd kill the transfer).
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
There is one thing that is being repeated a lot: too many models. I second that. Apple has now like 8 phones on sale. That’s a lot, too many.
A friend was telling me yesterday that the 5S is actually still on sale. Considering how quickly Apple obsoletes things, I was frankly surprised... (A friend of hers was replacing her phone)
I don’t think you can still buy it from Apple. Maybe they meant iPhone SE which looks like 5S?
Beats me. My friend simply said the store person said "let me see if I have it (the 5S) in stock"
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@boomzilla said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
because how do you make people realize how great Apple is at UX?
I'm still scarred from my experience of trying to use a Mac 20 years ago, honestly.
Out of interest, what went that wrong that you are still scarred?
He heard a mysterious "Eep!" and was so traumatized it never left him.
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@anotherusername said in iOS 11 Thread:
@tsaukpaetra said in iOS 11 Thread:
@jaloopa said in iOS 11 Thread:
@dcon said in iOS 11 Thread:
Out of curiosity, do wires work? When I plug my phone into USB, it simply shows up on Windows as another device. I can now click down into the file system and simply copy files as normal.
AFAIK, iPhones don't show up as mass storage devices. The only way to get data on and off them is via iTunes
No, they show up as a Camera. Because that makes so much sense.
I'm pretty sure it shows up as a storage device, not a camera. But it does only show the pictures and videos, so effectively it's a camera.
You could always tell when you plugged something in and it identified itself as a camera, because (at least under Windows XP) the Windows Explorer support for devices that identified as "cameras" was godawful (it worked, but let me see if I can remember... it was horribly slow, it didn't show any filenames by default, oh and I think I remember that if you closed the Explorer window while files were copying or moving, it'd kill the transfer).
Yes. All the above is still true.
To be fair, my Android does the same thing (to be "most compatible"), but I can switch it to UMS mode and it looks and acts just like a standard flash drive.
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
2 is also bars, because how do you make people realize how great Apple is at UX? I was a hardcore android user and I laughed at Apple and its users the same as people here do: it’s overpriced, it’s not innovative, blah blah. And then I was given an iPhone 4 and I decided to try it and I was hooke after completing the set up procedure. It was so well done, this was an amount of polish and finish I’ve never experienced in any other phone. But I would never have believed anyone if they just told me that, I had to experienced it first hand.
In 2005, I bought an iPod. Within a week of doing so, the fact that the thing worked so well and easily had me replace my POS computer with an iMac. I had been thinking of buying a new computer anyway, but hadn’t really considered an Apple until I figured that if the company made MP3 players like this, their computers were probably very usable too. (The reason I bought the iPod was more mundane: I wanted an MP3 player that held all my music, and I liked its design.)
A lot of people in general don’t value great design.
Especially, it seems, people who focus on the tech side of what they buy. “Yeah, it looks nice but the competitor costs half as much.” True, but it often also looks and/or feels like shit, both physically and its UI.
Finally, there’s one last thing that really pains me it’s hard to explain it to people: Apple’s stuff is more expensive, but that’s also because the product is the product, not you.
I tend to compare it to cars: why would you want to drive an Audi when you can also drive a Lada? Both are cars, right? They get you where you want to go and keep you out of the rain, don’t they?
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@dkf said in iOS 11 Thread:
It's still there so far as I can see, bound by default to F10 (which means that you might need something awful with the function key to get it; it depends on how you configure the system). Mind you, I don't know if you have that key on your keyboard; I've got an older generation MBP which has it.
[does some research]
Fuck. It's been nixed by that stupid reprogrammable touch bar shite, hasn't it?
Only if you have that. I’ve got the keyboard prefs set so that F9 through F11 are
ExposéMission Control (so I need Fn to use the media keys) and all the functions still work much like they have since 10.3.
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@jaloopa said in iOS 11 Thread:
AFAIK, iPhones don't show up as mass storage devices. The only way to get data on and off them is via iTunes
Older iPods used to have a setting that allowed them to show up as a mass storage device, but that got removed with, IIRC, the first iPod touch (and, I suppose, iPhone). I don’t know about Windows, but on a Mac, iOS devices don’t appear in the Finder or on the desktop, but do in applications that can talk to them — chiefly, iTunes, but also Photos. Also, there’s AirDrop to get stuff to the device, or from it to a Mac, though that requires wifi.
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@gurth said in iOS 11 Thread:
I tend to compare it to cars: why would you want to drive an Audi when you can also drive a Lada? Both are cars, right? They get you where you want to go and keep you out of the rain, don’t they?
Because you don't want to be stuck on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
If you used it 20 hours a day it’s a miracle it’s not you who died!
That's only because it didn't brew Nescafé
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@gurth said in iOS 11 Thread:
@jaloopa said in iOS 11 Thread:
AFAIK, iPhones don't show up as mass storage devices. The only way to get data on and off them is via iTunes
Older iPods used to have a setting that allowed them to show up as a mass storage device, but that got removed with, IIRC, the first iPod touch (and, I suppose, iPhone).
I had one, and it did. You would reset it while holding Pause and Enter, and it converted itself into a regular storage drive. I actually used it as USB storage for my cracked Wii.
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@grunnen said in iOS 11 Thread:
@anotherusername It's quite easy to turn WiFi off because of some kind of hick-up, forget to turn it back on, and discover at the end of the following day that you wasted your entire mobile data allowance on app updates and YouTube.
I feel like I'm repeating myself, but as usual:
When you turn off the wifi the option appears.
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@coldandtired but you need to go into settings for that. We’re talking control center (so a quick-access menu) here. ;)
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@gurth said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
2 is also bars, because how do you make people realize how great Apple is at UX? I was a hardcore android user and I laughed at Apple and its users the same as people here do: it’s overpriced, it’s not innovative, blah blah. And then I was given an iPhone 4 and I decided to try it and I was hooke after completing the set up procedure. It was so well done, this was an amount of polish and finish I’ve never experienced in any other phone. But I would never have believed anyone if they just told me that, I had to experienced it first hand.
In 2005, I bought an iPod. Within a week of doing so, the fact that the thing worked so well and easily had me replace my POS computer with an iMac. I had been thinking of buying a new computer anyway, but hadn’t really considered an Apple until I figured that if the company made MP3 players like this, their computers were probably very usable too. (The reason I bought the iPod was more mundane: I wanted an MP3 player that held all my music, and I liked its design.)
A lot of people in general don’t value great design.
Especially, it seems, people who focus on the tech side of what they buy. “Yeah, it looks nice but the competitor costs half as much.” True, but it often also looks and/or feels like shit, both physically and its UI.
Finally, there’s one last thing that really pains me it’s hard to explain it to people: Apple’s stuff is more expensive, but that’s also because the product is the product, not you.
I tend to compare it to cars: why would you want to drive an Audi when you can also drive a Lada? Both are cars, right? They get you where you want to go and keep you out of the rain, don’t they?
I also drive literally the last New Manual Transmission Toyota Tacoma truck they had on the lot at the time.
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@kt_ On the 'taskbar', a short press toggles the wifi while a long press goes to the screenshotted page, so it's not too onerous.
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@coldandtired said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ On the 'taskbar', a short press toggles the wifi while a long press goes to the screenshotted page, so it's not too onerous.
This actually sounds cool.
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@coldandtired said in iOS 11 Thread:
@kt_ On the 'taskbar', a short press toggles the wifi while a long press goes to the screenshotted page, so it's not too onerous.
TIL. Cool!
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
we had it already in an underperforming model of an android-based phone for 2 years, it was clunky there BUT IT’S NOT NEW APPLE FANS ARE LEMMINGS
A lot of the time when I make this comment, it isn't because it was on an underperforming Android, it's because it was working well on a flagship phone from LG or Samsung or Motorola. Facial recognition (which I have my own reservations about) works well on my current LG, and worked well on my last one that was 2 years old. I've seen comments here from people saying it worked well on their Samsung.
One of Apple's big watch announcements was that they were adding cell capabilities, something that has been available in multiple watches from multiple brands for at least a year, without significant bulk. Yet during Apple's big thing, it was a massive point in the watch presentation.
@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
Another problem with 2 is: a lot of people here don’t really value good design. A lot of people in general don’t value great design. They want good price/value ratios. They want just new features. They like fighting with software. How do you convince someone like that that Apple’s approach has its merit?
Give me a break. I've had various LG devices for about 4 years now. I've even helped a couple people switch over to Android from iPhone by getting them on LG's flagship phones (the G and V lines). They've both loved the user experience and don't really miss anything about iOS. That's not to say that Apple doesn't do UX well, or that they don't integrate features well. My point is that you can get good design with an Android phone. Not only that, but you can get good design and "just new features," as you put it. And, if you know how to play the game, you can do it all for a
goodgreat value.
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@abarker said in iOS 11 Thread:
One of Apple's big watch announcements was that they were adding cell capabilities, something that has been available in multiple watches from multiple brands for at least a year, without significant bulk. Yet during Apple's big thing, it was a massive point in the watch presentation.
I had a tri-band phone watch back in 2009 I think? It was ahead of its time.
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@abarker said in iOS 11 Thread:
Yet during Apple's big thing, it was a massive point in the watch presentation.
And they just forgot to talk about connection issues
Apple admits to Apple Watch LTE problems just before it ships
/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9280939/vpavic_170915_1975_0142.jpg)
The “handoff” isn’t working like it’s supposed to
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@timebandit said in iOS 11 Thread:
@abarker said in iOS 11 Thread:
Yet during Apple's big thing, it was a massive point in the watch presentation.
And they just forgot to talk about connection issues
Apple admits to Apple Watch LTE problems just before it ships
The “handoff” isn’t working like it’s supposed to
Why is it automatically connecting to unauthenticated hotspots to begin with?!?
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@tsaukpaetra said in iOS 11 Thread:
@timebandit said in iOS 11 Thread:
@abarker said in iOS 11 Thread:
Yet during Apple's big thing, it was a massive point in the watch presentation.
And they just forgot to talk about connection issues
Apple admits to Apple Watch LTE problems just before it ships
The “handoff” isn’t working like it’s supposed to
Why is it automatically connecting to unauthenticated hotspots to begin with?!?
Because the reviewer wanted it to, probably.
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@timebandit said in iOS 11 Thread:
@abarker said in iOS 11 Thread:
Yet during Apple's big thing, it was a massive point in the watch presentation.
And they just forgot to talk about connection issues
Apple admits to Apple Watch LTE problems just before it ships
The “handoff” isn’t working like it’s supposed to
I think you wanted a
there instead of the shrug. Always upvote for a good trolling attempt. :D
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@kt_ said in iOS 11 Thread:
@tsaukpaetra said in iOS 11 Thread:
@timebandit said in iOS 11 Thread:
@abarker said in iOS 11 Thread:
Yet during Apple's big thing, it was a massive point in the watch presentation.
And they just forgot to talk about connection issues
Apple admits to Apple Watch LTE problems just before it ships
The “handoff” isn’t working like it’s supposed to
Why is it automatically connecting to unauthenticated hotspots to begin with?!?
Because the reviewer wanted it to, probably.
Apple disagrees with you. The watch connects to unauthenticated hotspots by itself, blocking cellular connectivity at the same time. But I'm sure it's a couragous feature, not a horrendous bug knowingly pushed to end users.
