Audacity and filenames
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
Good reasoning, you've convinced me.
GUYZ YOU CAN'T MAKE YOUR OWN CHOICES, IF YOU DON'T THINK LIKE ME, YOU ARE THE DUMB STUPID LUNIX IDIOTS
AND YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE ALL STUPID AND I WILL IGNORE THEM ALL
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
@dkf Maybe but that's not "Linux" doing the specifying.
I guess it's one of those de jure vs de facto things. Stop thinking too hard about it and just lay back and think of Redmond.
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@boomzilla said in Audacity and filenames:
I guess it's one of those de jure vs de facto things.
Right; it's "works on my machine" codified into a best practice. Who needs a spec?
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
@boomzilla said in Audacity and filenames:
I guess it's one of those de jure vs de facto things.
Right; it's "works on my machine" codified into a best practice. Who needs a spec?
Why are you putting words into my mouth that I never said?
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@boomzilla I'm... not? Are you sure that was me and not Twilight Zone Me who lives in your brain and whispers to you at night?
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
I'm... not?
Call 911, you may be having a stroke.
@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
Are you sure that was me and not Twilight Zone Me who lives in your brain and whispers to you at night?
The characters @blakeyrat are right there on the post but I cannot confirm that the Twilight Zone You didn't login to your account.
Aside: Does it bug anyone else when they have to type "log in to" and wonder whether it should be "login to", "log into" or "log in to?"
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@boomzilla said in Audacity and filenames:
wonder whether it should be "login to", "log into" or "log in to?"
YES !
Which is the right one ?
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@boomzilla It would be helpful if maybe you told me what thing I typed led your demented insane brain to think I was putting words in your mouth, because I certainly don't see it.
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@boomzilla The proper terminology is "login into"
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@hungrier no, it's logon onto
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@boomzilla said in Audacity and filenames:
Aside: Does it bug anyone else when they have to type "log in to" and wonder whether it should be "login to", "log into" or "log in to?"
No: I say "login to" and move on ;)
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
@boomzilla It would be helpful if maybe you told me what thing I typed led your demented insane brain to think I was putting words in your mouth, because I certainly don't see it.
I fucking quoted it when I said it. Here it is again:
@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
@boomzilla said in Audacity and filenames:
I guess it's one of those de jure vs de facto things.
Right; it's "works on my machine" codified into a best practice. Who needs a spec?
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@raceprouk said in Audacity and filenames:
No: I say "login to" and move on
but, once you're "login to", then shouldn't you "move in" ?
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@raceprouk said in Audacity and filenames:
login to
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
Are you sure that was me and not Twilight Zone Me who lives in your brain and whispers to you at night?
Twilight Zone You was with me at the time. I can vouch for him.
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@pie_flavor said in Audacity and filenames:
@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
Also it doesn't help that Audacity is a piece of broken crap which nobody would use ever except it has a free noise removal plug-in.
@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
There isn't one. I just said that.
Nice. "Nobody would ever use it" except it's the only one so actually everyone would use it.
Nobody goes there any more. It's too crowded.
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@boomzilla Ok well I don't know what kind of secret code you think is contained in those two sentences, but you're reading stuff I didn't type. There's really no point to talking to a crazy-person further about this.
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
So it's incorrect to say "Linux uses UTF8". You could say something like "all popular OSes built on the Linux kernel use UTF8" and probably be correct. But try not to underestimate how much a shitty piece of crap Linux itself is.
Which layer, pray tell, is the correct one to enforce encoding restrictions?
lib$LANGUAGElib%LANGUAGE%? Syscall? File system driver? Southbridge? And how does Windows deal with those restrictions? Could it be due to its broken handling of those restrictions that I can create (and export to OGG BTW) a project called "𝄞" (U+1D11E) in Audacity on Linux but lots of Windows programs (including system file selection dialogs, at least until recently) barf on that name?
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@laoc said in Audacity and filenames:
Which layer, pray tell, is the correct one to enforce encoding restrictions? lib$LANGUAGElib%LANGUAGE%? Syscall? File system driver? Southbridge?
Maybe it's better to design an entire operating system all at once instead of just glomming 473 shitty layers together with glue.
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
@boomzilla Ok well I don't know what kind of secret code you think is contained in those two sentences, but you're reading stuff I didn't type.
OK well, like I said, I can't confirm who was logged into your account at that point.
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@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
Which layer, pray tell, is the correct one to enforce encoding restrictions? lib$LANGUAGElib%LANGUAGE%? Syscall? File system driver? Southbridge?
Maybe it's better to design an entire operating system all at once
That "all at once" must be the reason for the wise design decision to mix big-endian and little-endian formats in SMB packets. Because maybe it's better™.
instead of just glomming 473 shitty layers together with glue.
Windows doesn't use language runtimes and encapsulated file system drivers? TIL.
Tune in again for our upcoming rant about how monolithic Linux is!
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@laoc said in Audacity and filenames:
Tune in again for our upcoming rant about how monolithic Linux is!
And how you need to recompile the kernel to add/remove/change a driver
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@laoc said in Audacity and filenames:
Could it be due to its broken handling of those restrictions that I can create (and export to OGG BTW) a project called "𝄞" (U+1D11E) in Audacity on Linux but lots of Windows programs (including system file selection dialogs, at least until recently) barf on that name?
Even more interesting. If I use your example filename in Audacity under macOS, all I get is an empty directory called
_data
and no.aup
file. This is not caused by the OS, because in Text Edit,𝄞.txt
creates a file called just that.Then trying to Save As… the same Audacity project as
foo.aup
creates an empty folderfoo_data
and an error that the file couldn’t be saved, with the helpful explanation that perhaps the directory I chose isn’t writeable (yet it just createdfoo_data
in that same dir) or maybe the disk is full (416 GB free, so I doubt that’s the cause),
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@gurth said in Audacity and filenames:
Could it be due to its broken handling of those restrictions that I can create (and export to OGG BTW) a project called "𝄞" (U+1D11E) in Audacity on Linux but lots of Windows programs (including system file selection dialogs, at least until recently) barf on that name?
Even more interesting. If I use your example filename in Audacity under macOS, all I get is an empty directory called
_data
and no.aup
file. This is not caused by the OS, because in Text Edit,𝄞.txt
creates a file called just that.Probably due to this. They couldn't just say "we use NFD and enforce it", no, it had to be "a variant of NFD" that seems to be communicated most concisely by this table that makes an x86 opcode handbook look like easy prose.
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@laoc said in Audacity and filenames:
They couldn't just say "we use NFD and enforce it", no, it had to be "a variant of NFD"
Possibly, but doesn’t it still boil down to Audacity not talking to the OS correctly?
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@laoc said in Audacity and filenames:
@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
So it's incorrect to say "Linux uses UTF8". You could say something like "all popular OSes built on the Linux kernel use UTF8" and probably be correct. But try not to underestimate how much a shitty piece of crap Linux itself is.
Which layer, pray tell, is the correct one to enforce encoding restrictions?
lib$LANGUAGElib%LANGUAGE%? Syscall? File system driver? Southbridge? And how does Windows deal with those restrictions? Could it be due to its broken handling of those restrictions that I can create (and export to OGG BTW) a project called "𝄞" (U+1D11E) in Audacity on Linux but lots of Windows programs (including system file selection dialogs, at least until recently) barf on that name?https://i.imgur.com/5OGPp2y.png
I'm struggling to figure out why the fuck it's doing this.
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@pie_flavor said in Audacity and filenames:
I'm struggling to figure out why the fuck it's doing this.
It's selected different fonts for whatever reason.
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@laoc said in Audacity and filenames:
@gurth said in Audacity and filenames:
Could it be due to its broken handling of those restrictions that I can create (and export to OGG BTW) a project called "𝄞" (U+1D11E) in Audacity on Linux but lots of Windows programs (including system file selection dialogs, at least until recently) barf on that name?
Even more interesting. If I use your example filename in Audacity under macOS, all I get is an empty directory called
_data
and no.aup
file. This is not caused by the OS, because in Text Edit,𝄞.txt
creates a file called just that.Probably due to this. They couldn't just say "we use NFD and enforce it", no, it had to be "a variant of NFD" that seems to be communicated most concisely by this table that makes an x86 opcode handbook look like easy prose.
That's Apple's MO--cryptic errors everywhere.
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@masonwheeler said in Audacity and filenames:
@blakeyrat said in Audacity and filenames:
Also it doesn't help that Audacity is a piece of broken crap which nobody would use ever except it has a free noise removal plug-in.
OK then, what's a better free program in its niche?
Why does a program have to be free? Over the years, I've started to notice a pattern -- most of the programs I use that work reasonably well, do what I need and aren't complete crap, aren't free.
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@el_heffe Because Audacity is free, so a fair comparison needs to be against other free programs.
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@masonwheeler said in Audacity and filenames:
@el_heffe Because Audacity is free, so a fair comparison needs to be against other free programs.
OK, fair enough.
In that case the answer is -- Audacity is crap but it's the best you're going to get if you insist on free.
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@gurth said in Audacity and filenames:
They couldn't just say "we use NFD and enforce it", no, it had to be "a variant of NFD"
Possibly, but doesn’t it still boil down to Audacity not talking to the OS correctly?
Probably. It's just that doing it correctly seems to involve following that stupid table instead of something standardized that common Unicode libraries support, so it's understandable if they do the same as I did recently when I added support for writing Unicode filenames on HFS to someone else's code: use NFD and be done with it. I added the whole Unicode support to what used to be ASCII only, and I wanted it to not immediately blow up on Apple. If someone who actually uses it has a need for the cases where it does break, they can go fix it, ICBA.
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@el_heffe said in Audacity and filenames:
Over the years, I've started to notice a pattern -- most of the programs I use that work reasonably well, do what I need and aren't complete crap, aren't free.
Now you know why Microsoft made Windows 10 free
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@timebandit said in Audacity and filenames:
@el_heffe said in Audacity and filenames:
Over the years, I've started to notice a pattern -- most of the programs I use that work reasonably well, do what I need and aren't complete crap, aren't free.
Now you know why Microsoft made Windows 10 free
Windows 10 works reasonably well, does what I need, and isn't complete crap.
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@blakeyrat Nothing to do with whether it's Linux-y or not. SoundForge just plain doesn't do what I want. I don't know why this is hard for you to understand.
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@gordonjcp said in Audacity and filenames:
I don't know why this is hard for you to understand.
That's how he likes it.
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@timebandit said in Audacity and filenames:
@boomzilla said in Audacity and filenames:
wonder whether it should be "login to", "log into" or "log in to?"
YES !
Which is the right one ?
Sign in to.
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