Google completely misses the point of backups
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Um. A Google Drive backup isn't a backup. It's just a copy of your file stored on the Internet somewhere. Even if Google encourages you to do it and it's a convenience feature because you can restore it more easily, it isn't a backup.
A backup is stored where you can get at it easily, and you don't depend on the whims of Google NOR of your Internet provider to get at it.
But two weeks does seem a little ... hasty ... on their part.
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Anyone who doesn't use their phone for two weeks is dead.
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The really funny part is that if you e-mailed the backup file(s) to your gmail address, I'm sure it would stay in your inbox potentially indefinitely.
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@blek said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
The really funny part is that if you e-mailed the backup file(s) to your gmail address, I'm sure it would stay in your inbox potentially indefinitely.
"Indefinitely" does not mean "forever". It means "for an unspecified amount of time". If that time turns out to be three days because Google has a fit of fits and shutters gmail, well, yah-boo, sucks to be you.
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Here's a smart idea ... back up to your desktop. What a novel idea. It's not like most major manufacturers don't supply this ability in any way shape or form.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Um. A Google Drive backup isn't a backup. It's just a copy of your file stored on the Internet somewhere. Even if Google encourages you to do it and it's a convenience feature because you can restore it more easily, it isn't a backup.
Just because it's stored on Google Drive doesn't make it not-a-backup. The thing they're referring to is the official baked-into-the-firmware Google backup that you get when you sign into your Google account on a device, that stores your settings, wifi passwords etc. It's also the best you can do (AFAIK) without rooting your phone and using something like Titanium Backup.
What makes it not-a-backup is the ridiculous two week removal policy.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Um. A Google Drive backup isn't a backup. It's just a copy of your file stored on the Internet somewhere. Even if Google encourages you to do it and it's a convenience feature because you can restore it more easily, it isn't a backup.
Why not? That is exactly what an offsite backup is.
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
A backup is stored where you can get at it easily, and you don't depend on the whims of Google NOR of your Internet provider to get at it.
Again, that is what an offsite backup is.
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
But two weeks does seem a little ... hasty ... on their part.
Two week retention is what makes it not a backup. The rest of that does not.
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@polygeekery said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Um. A Google Drive backup isn't a backup. It's just a copy of your file stored on the Internet somewhere. Even if Google encourages you to do it and it's a convenience feature because you can restore it more easily, it isn't a backup.
Why not? That is exactly what an offsite backup is.
Really? Something stored on a random disk somewhere at the whim of a foreign company is NOT an offsite backup. An offsite backup is stored where you can get at it reliably - the canonical example is a tape stored in a bank vault. (Yes, I get that you can't restore that at a moment's notice, but unless you had the misfortune to pick a bank that proceeds to fold, you won't have problems with the ability to restore. Not like "I didn't use my phone for two weeks so Google deleted my backups".)
Ultimately an offsite backup's job is to be a safety net if the on-site backup fails for some reason, you know, like the building burns down.
@polygeekery said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
A backup is stored where you can get at it easily, and you don't depend on the whims of Google NOR of your Internet provider to get at it.
Again, that is what an offsite backup is.
Note those words "whims of Google". That, without reference to timeframes, is sufficient reason to say it's not a backup.
@polygeekery said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
But two weeks does seem a little ... hasty ... on their part.
Two week retention is what makes it not a backup. The rest of that does not.
The two week thing just makes the not-a- backup state easily visible.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Really? Something stored on a random disk somewhere at the whim of a foreign company is NOT an offsite backup.
Well, if you remove the whole "whim of a foreign company", that is exactly what an offsite backup is.
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
An offsite backup is stored where you can get at it reliably - the canonical example is a tape stored in a bank vault.
That would barely qualify as an offsite backup. That copy of data would be nowhere near up to date at any particular time unless you have someone taking a tape to the bank every day. A good offsite backup should be automatic and hands-off and done at least daily.
Tapes are really shitty backup solutions all around. The number of tape restores that fail is absolutely staggering.
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Ultimately an offsite backup's job is to be a safety net if the on-site backup fails for some reason, you know, like the building burns down.
Yes.
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Note those words "whims of Google". That, without reference to timeframes, is sufficient reason to say it's not a backup.
I mostly objected to your reference to internet provider.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Um. A Google Drive backup isn't a backup.
Then Google shouldn't call it a backup. If Google calls it Google Backup, then I don't blame people for treating it as such.
A backup is stored where you can get at it easily, and you don't depend on the whims of Google NOR of your Internet provider to get at it.
...
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Really? Something stored on a random disk somewhere at the whim of a foreign company is NOT an offsite backup. An offsite backup is stored where you can get at it reliably - the canonical example is a tape stored in a bank vault. (Yes, I get that you can't restore that at a moment's notice, but unless you had the misfortune to pick a bank that proceeds to fold, you won't have problems with the ability to restore. Not like "I didn't use my phone for two weeks so Google deleted my backups".)Since when is a bank not a foreign company? Given what's happened with banks in the last several years, I trust them less than I do Google.
I should also point out that not only can you not restore offsite backups in a vault at a moment's notice, you also can't add to the backup very easily either. For regular consumers who just want to make sure their family photos are relatively safe, having them in a vault in a bank is overkill. And, again, if Google doesn't want them to be reliable backups, then they should stop calling them backups.
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@hungrier said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Just because it's stored on Google Drive doesn't make it not-a-backup. The thing they're referring to is the official baked-into-the-firmware Google backup that you get when you sign into your Google account on a device, that stores your settings, wifi passwords etc. It's also the best you can do (AFAIK) without rooting your phone and using something like Titanium Backup.
That freaking sucks. That being said, 99% of users won't notice since that service is mostly used for the use case of "I just got a new phone and my old one was active an hour ago-- transfer the apps and accounts over."
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@heterodox said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
That freaking sucks. That being said, 99% of users won't notice since that service is mostly used for the use case of "I just got a new phone and my old one was active an hour ago-- transfer the apps and accounts over."
And actually, come to think of it, it might be for the best from a data retention perspective (that may have prompted the change in the first place). How long do you want Google keeping your IMAP account passwords, Wi-Fi passwords, etc. if you've stopped using their phones?
ETA: Also it looks like the period may be around two months, not two weeks. TechRepublic is misinterpreting the Google support page, which says "If you don't use your device for 2 weeks, you may see an expiration date below your backup. Example: 'Expires in 54 days.'"
The original Reddit post that prompted the article says two months and Google's example seems to approximately back that up as well.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Really? Something stored on a random disk somewhere at the whim of a foreign company
A company which (in my case) is paid a fair amount of money and has an agreement to provide a service to me (Google Drive/GSuite/Google Apps for Work).
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
An offsite backup is stored where you can get at it reliably
Like Google Drive?
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
the canonical example is a tape stored in a bank vault
Oh, so inconvenient. So, not like Google Drive.
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Yes, I get that you can't restore that at a moment's notice, but unless you had the misfortune to pick a bank that proceeds to fold, you won't have problems with the ability to restore
Unless the tape drive fails. Or the bank burns down. Or someone breaks in. I assume Google probably has more backups than the bank would there - namely more than 0...
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
I didn't use my phone for two weeks so Google deleted my backups
An unspecified time that's specified after too weeks*
@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
The two week thing just makes the not-a- backup state easily visible.
No, it makes it not a backup. Except that it's actually more than two weeks...
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@sloosecannon Also, if you're using the public Google Drive version...
We believe that you own your data and preserving your access to such data is important. If we discontinue a Service, where reasonably possible, we will give you reasonable advance notice and a chance to get information out of that Service.
While that's not a backup SLA, that is saying it's unlikely they'll just shut down. They don't have a real history of doing that either - they've shut down plenty of services before, but they give a fair warning beforehand - plenty of time to move to another solution.
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@sloosecannon said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Like Google Drive?
Google Drive can be part of a backup strategy, but the way they have it work it makes for a really shitty part of one. On a 1-2-3 backup strategy, it would be #4.
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@polygeekery said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
@sloosecannon said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Like Google Drive?
Google Drive can be part of a backup strategy, but the way they have it work it makes for a really shitty part of one. On a 1-2-3 backup strategy, it would be #4.
Well yea that was mostly a
response. It can work as part of a backup, but it's not really intended to be used as such. Except for Android app backups...
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@steve_the_cynic said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Yes, I get that you can't restore that at a moment's notice, but unless you had the misfortune to pick a bank that proceeds to fold
Any tapes stored within a bank that's about to fold will be crushed by compressive forces from the vault walls as they arrange themselves into their new orientations.
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@coldandtired said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Anyone who doesn't use their phone for two weeks is dead.
And a perfect reason why you might want that backup...
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@inari-pooltoy said in Google completely misses the point of backups:
Here's a smart idea ... back up to your desktop. What a novel idea. It's not like most major manufacturers don't supply this ability in any way shape or form.
Less and less IMHE.
