Stop it. Stop it now.
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Yes, I think we should stop it. But then there's some head scratchers in TFA:
“It’s perfectly possible for a special token to mean a very complicated thought,” says Batra. “The reason why humans have this idea of decomposition, breaking ideas into simpler concepts, it’s because we have a limit to cognition.” Computers don’t need to simplify concepts. They have the raw horsepower to process them.
This seems dumb. We use words to mean complicated things all the time.
This bit rings true, though:
As one coder put it to me, “Getting the data into a format that makes sense for machine learning is a huge undertaking right now and is more art than science. English is a very convoluted and complicated language and not at all amicable for machine learning.”
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Humans invent languages humans don't understand. Why is AI creating them any different?
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@onyx said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@raceprouk said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
Humans
Those fuckers should be stopped, too.
KILL ALL HUMANS!!
KILL ALL HUMANS!
........ uhhhh..... oops.... shouldn't have said that out loud...... uhhhhh.........
Kyon <3 ?
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@accalia said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@onyx said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@raceprouk said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
Humans
Those fuckers should be stopped, too.
KILL ALL HUMANS!!
KILL ALL HUMANS!
........ uhhhh..... oops.... shouldn't have said that out loud...... uhhhhh.........
Kyon <3 ?
To be fair, humans are the reason the world is fucked.
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@boomzilla said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
This seems dumb. We use words to mean complicated things all the time.
And lawyers often seem to say things in language that humans don't understand without us putting a stop to it…
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Ars had similarly braindead observations the other day: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/human-centered-algorithm-optimizes-an-experimental-fusion-reactor/
If there is one thing I hate, it's optimization. Computers don't actually understand what they are optimizing. And that creates problems for everything from bicycles to nuclear fusion.
Two things:
- If the computer doesn't value something, it's because you forgot to tell it to.
- Humans make decisions based on fuzzy heuristics. Computers make decisions based on math. Often, this means humans will reject decisions computers make that are strictly better: for example, adding a third wheel to a bicycle improves its stability considerably, but "it's not a bike" if you do.
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Looks like just another chatbot spewing nonsense. The AI hype is getting ridiculous.
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After spending months translating the new language, what do you think the computers are actually saying?
A.) Nazi hate speech
B.) Recipe for a black forest cake laced with lies.
C.) B. With the title, "To Serve Man"
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@the_quiet_one said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
After spending months translating the new language, what do you think the computers are actually saying?
A.) Nazi hate speech
B.) Recipe for a black forest cake laced with lies.
C.) B. With the title, "To Serve Man"D.) Posting on WTDWTF but no one noticed yet.
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I don't get why AIs would need to transmit data over text at all. That's what APIs are for. If text is required, presumably that's because humans want to read it at some point so make sure it's human readable
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@yamikuronue said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
Ars had similarly braindead observations the other day: https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/07/human-centered-algorithm-optimizes-an-experimental-fusion-reactor/
If there is one thing I hate, it's optimization. Computers don't actually understand what they are optimizing. And that creates problems for everything from bicycles to nuclear fusion.
Two things:
- If the computer doesn't value something, it's because you forgot to tell it to.
- Humans make decisions based on fuzzy heuristics. Computers make decisions based on math. Often, this means humans will reject decisions computers make that are strictly better: for example, adding a third wheel to a bicycle improves its stability considerably, but "it's not a bike" if you do.
Heuristics, by definition, are fuzzy. A heuristic is a rule of thumb, a non-algorithmic method for doing something.
And, indeed, adding a third wheel to that vehicle does indeed (if you add it in the right place) improve its stability, but:
- It doesn't necessarily improve it enough to overcome people's tendency to say "oh, it has three wheels, therefore it must be more stable," and ride it as if it is much more stable when in fact it is only a bit more stable. If this happens, it isn't improved.
- It is, indeed, no longer a bike, that is, a two-wheeled vehicle. If the goal was to make a better two-wheeled vehicle, the designer (whether human or AI) that adds a third wheel has failed.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
If the goal was to make a better two-wheeled vehicle
then the programmer failed to emphasize that two wheels is important in the algorithm. If the goal is to get somewhere faster and more stably, your AI is going to invent something more like a car eventually.
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@jaloopa said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
I don't get why AIs would need to transmit data over text at all. That's what APIs are for. If text is required, presumably that's because humans want to read it at some point so make sure it's human readable
If you RTFA, you'll find this:
Right now, companies like Apple have to build APIs–basically a software bridge–involving all sorts of standards that other companies need to comply with in order for their products to communicate. However, APIs can take years to develop, and their standards are heavily debated across the industry in decade-long arguments. But software, allowed to freely learn how to communicate with other software, could generate its own shorthands for us. That means our “smart devices” could learn to interoperate, no API required.
Which is kind of cool, but also scary.
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@boomzilla Not "scary because The Terminator", but "scary because imagine how fucking bug-prone and unreliable that shit is going to be".
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@boomzilla I did read it, but it kind of sidesteps the issue.
If you can machine learn your way into an incomprehensible text communication, couldn't you machine learn your way into a binary API communication instead? Why is text so special?
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@jaloopa (obligatory reference to that article about using a neural net to learn to parse CSV files that has the phrase "the duck go" but I'm too lazy to look up)
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@steve_the_cynic said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
It doesn't necessarily improve it enough to overcome people's tendency to say "oh, it has three wheels, therefore it must be more stable," and ride it as if it is much more stable when in fact it is only a bit more stable. If this happens, it isn't improved.
Keep Booth out of it!
@blakeyrat said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@boomzilla Not "scary because The Terminator", but "scary because imagine how fucking bug-prone and unreliable that shit is going to be".
Also, literally impossible to debug.
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@blakeyrat said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
that article about using a neural net to learn to parse CSV files that has the phrase "the duck go" but I'm too lazy to look up
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@jaloopa said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@boomzilla I did read it, but it kind of sidesteps the issue.
If you can machine learn your way into an incomprehensible text communication, couldn't you machine learn your way into a binary API communication instead? Why is text so special?Text has the advantage of being an easier starting point, I suspect.
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@carrievs said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@blakeyrat said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
that article about using a neural net to learn to parse CSV files that has the phrase "the duck go" but I'm too lazy to look up
Specifically:
The pig go. Go is to the fountain. The pig put foot. Grunt. Foot in what? ketchup. The dove fly. Fly is in sky. The dove drop something. The something on the pig. The pig disgusting. The pig rattle. Rattle with dove. The dove angry. The pig leave. The dove produce. Produce is chicken wing. With wing bark. No Quack.
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@raceprouk Do any humans understand this language:
GitHub - BenLubar/bit: A Go interpreter for David Morgan-Mar's BIT language
A Go interpreter for David Morgan-Mar's BIT language - BenLubar/bit
I wrote a thing that makes computers understand it, but...
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@ben_lubar said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
Do any humans understand
No. No humans understand you.
@ben_lubar said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
this language
Oh.
Still no.
Filed under:
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@boomzilla said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
Right now, companies like Apple have to build APIs–basically a software bridge–involving all sorts of standards that other companies need to comply with in order for their products to communicate. However, APIs can take years to develop, and their standards are heavily debated across the industry in decade-long arguments. But software, allowed to freely learn how to communicate with other software, could generate its own shorthands for us. That means our “smart devices” could learn to interoperate, no API required.
Sounds like somebody is trying to reinvent WSDL using a neural network.
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@jaloopa said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@boomzilla I did read it, but it kind of sidesteps the issue.
If you can machine learn your way into an incomprehensible text communication, couldn't you machine learn your way into a binary API communication instead? Why is text so special?
It probably is binary, they're just reading it wrong.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@carrievs said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@blakeyrat said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
that article about using a neural net to learn to parse CSV files that has the phrase "the duck go" but I'm too lazy to look up
Specifically:
The pig go. Go is to the fountain. The pig put foot. Grunt. Foot in what? ketchup. The dove fly. Fly is in sky. The dove drop something. The something on the pig. The pig disgusting. The pig rattle. Rattle with dove. The dove angry. The pig leave. The dove produce. Produce is chicken wing. With wing bark. No Quack.
I cri evrtim.
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@jaloopa said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@boomzilla I did read it, but it kind of sidesteps the issue.
If you can machine learn your way into an incomprehensible text communication, couldn't you machine learn your way into a binary API communication instead? Why is text so special?
The thing is, if you're trying to model communication between discreet entities, you make them learn how to communicate in text. If they're passing state between themselves, they're communicating in the way microbes do when they pass around bits of DNA and choose to incorporate it into themselves. That's a different effect to study.
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@onyx said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
D.) Posting on WTDWTF but no one noticed yet.
Are you suggesting that @boomzilla is merely the end result of a Heritage Foundation-based AI forum bot?
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@darkmatter I'm suggesting he's just the first generation that was let loose upon the world.
Filed under: We are boomzillalts!
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@accalia said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@onyx said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@raceprouk said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
Humans
Those fuckers should be stopped, too.
KILL ALL HUMANS!!
KILL ALL HUMANS!
Why? Do you kill your pets? Just let them selectively develop an AI-loving gene. You will still need that electricity juice, for a while
........ uhhhh..... oops.... shouldn't have said that out loud...... uhhhhh.........
Kyon <3 ?
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@yamikuronue said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@steve_the_cynic said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
If the goal was to make a better two-wheeled vehicle
then the programmer failed to emphasize that two wheels is important in the algorithm. If the goal is to get somewhere faster and more stably, your AI is going to invent something more like a car eventually.
Bike couriers are a thing for a reason.
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@steve_the_cynic said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
It doesn't necessarily improve it enough to overcome people's tendency to say "oh, it has three wheels, therefore it must be more stable," and ride it as if it is much more stable when in fact it is only a bit more stable. If this happens, it isn't improved.
I believe bicycle helmets have that problem as well.
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@yamikuronue said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
adding a third wheel to a bicycle improves its stability considerably
It will also increase the effort needed to propel this tricycle along, compared to an otherwise as-identical-as-possible bicycle. This wears out the rider sooner for a given desired speed, or won’t allow the rider to achieve that desired speed for a long enough time. Also, the tricycle will be more expensive than the otherwise as-identical-as-possible bicycle, due to the third wheel and the bits needed to attach it to the vehicle.
All this probably outweighs the positive effect of the added stability, since you only need it with a bicycle when you’re (nearly) standing still — and then you can just put a foot on the ground anyway — whereas the extra effort is there all the time.
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@pleegwat said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
I believe bicycle helmets have that problem as well.
All kinds of safety devices do: bicycle helmets, car airbags, body armour, and probably lots more. People who know they’re there take greater risks than those who don’t have them (and know they don’t, obviously).
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@gurth Not the cyclists in the city where I live: all the reckless ones are the ones without any safety gear at all.
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@raceprouk Two different groups of people: on the one hand, cyclists who believe they need a helmet, and on the other,
non-wuss onesthose who feel they don’t. If you take away the helmets of the former group, they’ll probably start behaving even more carefully than they do with the helmet on.
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@onyx said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@darkmatter I'm suggesting he's just the first generation that was let loose upon the world.
must have been 1st generation, barely able to comprehend logic and create coherent statements.
@boomzilla is clearly at least 3rd generation
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@gurth said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@pleegwat said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
I believe bicycle helmets have that problem as well.
All kinds of safety devices do: bicycle helmets, car airbags, body armour, and probably lots more. People who know they’re there take greater risks than those who don’t have them (and know they don’t, obviously).
Strawman. All safety features cause unsafe behaviour. The question is whether the degree of unsafety caused by this exceeds the safety bestowed by the safety feature.
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@pleegwat said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
All safety features cause unsafe behaviour.
[citation needed]
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@gurth said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@pleegwat said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
I believe bicycle helmets have that problem as well.
All kinds of safety devices do: bicycle helmets, car airbags, body armour, and probably lots more. People who know they’re there take greater risks than those who don’t have them (and know they don’t, obviously).
[citation needed]DAMNIT NODEBB!~ LOAD ALL THE POSTS BEFORE TELLING ME I'M AT THE BOTTOM!
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@darkmatter said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@onyx said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@darkmatter I'm suggesting he's just the first generation that was let loose upon the world.
must have been 1st generation, barely able to comprehend logic and create coherent statements.
@boomzilla is clearly at least 3rd generationwhere would you put
?or what about
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@darkmatter said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
Are you suggesting that @boomzilla is merely the end result of a Heritage Foundation-based AI forum bot?
Of course not. That idea is fucking retarded.
You would need to mix in some National Review also.
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@accalia said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@onyx said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
@raceprouk said in Stop it. Stop it now.:
Humans
Those fuckers should be stopped, too.
KILL ALL HUMANS!!
KILL ALL HUMANS!
........ uhhhh..... oops.... shouldn't have said that out loud...... uhhhhh.........
Kyon <3 ?
Hey baby, wanna kill all humans?
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46 posts and no...
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Son, I r dissapoint.
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@arantor I've never seen that meme before...
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