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GUYS, WHO CONTRACTED AN SEO FIRM TO SPAM THE FORUMS WITH ALL THE SEARCH TERMS?
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Could at least have identified the main language of the forum rather than posting all the languages
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@jaloopa
No Dutch? Fuck them!
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@luhmann I said languages, not weird moon languages
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@jaloopa said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-1095:
not weird moon languages
so no Flemish?
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@luhmann said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@jaloopa said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-1095:
not weird moon languages
so no Flemish?
Flemish isn’t a language. (Luckily for me, because I live little more than a stone’s throw from Flanders.)
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@gurth
Potverdekke
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@luhmann Dunno. It's weird that Frisian is a language but Flemish is not.
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@pleegwat said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
It's weird that Frisian is a language but Flemish is not.
That's what you get with a bit smarter marketing.
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@gurth said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
Flemish isn’t a language. (Luckily for me, because I live little more than a stone’s throw from Flanders.)
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@pleegwat said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@luhmann Dunno. It's weird that Frisian is a language but Flemish is not.
Mutual intelligibility, I think. Now, I live about as far from Groningen as it’s possible to get while remaining in the Netherlands, but I suspect that people speaking a Gronings dialect of Dutch still have a relatively hard time understanding Frisian. On the other hand, most Flemish dialects are fairly straightforward to understand for me and, I suppose, most other people who’ve grown up in the southern part of the Netherlands before the loss of native dialects due to that bloody TV-Hollands taking over in recent decades.
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@gurth
I always thought it's also a question of roots. Frisian has distinct roots that are different from Dutch and all associated dialects.
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@luhmann said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@gurth
I always thought it's also a question of roots.That too, but go back far enough and it must have been mutually intelligible with other Germanic languages of the era. It probably really gets down to the basic question of when does a dialect become a language?
Frisian has distinct roots that are different from Dutch and all associated dialects.
What, it didn’t come from the Tower of Babel? ;)
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@gurth said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
It probably really gets down to the basic question of when does a dialect become a language?
That's similar to the question of when a population becomes a subspecies becomes a species
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@jaloopa subspecies to species is easy - no more fertile offsprings. Population to subspecies is basically bikeshedding.
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@gąska there are other cases though, because biology is messy. The London Underground Mosquito is close enough to the overground versions morphologically that they could produce viable offspring but their mating behaviours have diverged so much that they're not actually able to mate. Inseminating one from the other would be feasible. There's some disagreement over whether they should count as a separate species or a subspecies
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@jaloopa the only thing I see here is that biologists can't get their shit together to make precise definitions of their words.
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@gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@jaloopa the only thing I see here is that biologists can't get their shit together to make precise definitions of their words.
They've been taking too many lessons from astronomers
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@gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@jaloopa the only thing I see here is that biologists can't get their shit together to make precise definitions of their words.
That's biology for you. It's more complicated than words.
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@boomzilla you know what is also complicated? Quantum physics. But you know what quantum physics does not have? Vague terms. If they can have precise terminology, so can kitten stalkers and gardeners.
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@gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@boomzilla you know what is also complicated? Quantum physics. But you know what quantum physics does not have? Vague terms. If they can have precise terminology, so can kitten stalkers and gardeners.
No. Because we keep finding exceptions that don't match. But I think this is more a philosophical problem than anything.
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@gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@jaloopa the only thing I see here is that biologists can't get their shit together to make precise definitions of their words.
What I see here is that life is more complicated than mathematics (sure, we can be arbitrary with it when we made it up) and while as humans we like to put things into little boxes, sometimes that's hard for things that have been proven to be on a continuum.
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@heterodox the problem isn't that biologists are unable to put everything into little neat labeled boxes. The problem is that it's pretty much an impossible task given our current taxonomical model, yet biologists still try to fit everything in this stupid model instead of thinking up another one that makes more sense.
I'm fine with lack of labels - I only have problem with useless and misleading ones.
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@heterodox said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
What I see here is that life is more complicated than mathematics (sure, we can be arbitrary with it when we made it up)
We didn't make up math; we discovered it.
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@masonwheeler said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
We didn't make up math; we discovered it.
Actually, we did make up maths, as a way to model (what happens in) the physical world. The fact we continually strive to make those models more accurate is why maths is such a precise and well-defined subject.
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@masonwheeler said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
We didn't make up math; we discovered it.
@raceprouk said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
Actually, we did make up maths
There's not really a full consensus among mathematical philosophers. On the one hand, it does seem like there's something fundamental to the logical inferences, and the usual set of axioms is chosen to be a good reflection of what we observe in the real world, but on the other hand, those axioms are at least a bit arbitrary and a different set could lead to a very different mathematical landscape. See what happened when Euclid's 5th postulate (the parallel postulate) was taken out, leading to non Euclidean geometry
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@Gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@heterodox the problem isn't that biologists are unable to put everything into little neat labeled boxes. The problem is that it's pretty much an impossible task given our current taxonomical model, yet biologists still try to fit everything in this stupid model instead of thinking up another one that makes more sense.
I'm fine with lack of labels - I only have problem with useless and misleading ones.
Some of the terminology problems arise when they're dumbing things down for laypeople. Check out http://tolweb.org/tree/ , and their use of terms like "monophyletic".
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@Jaloopa said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
Could at least have identified the main language of the forum rather than posting all the languages
We should make a rule that if your spam includes a Lojban translation, it can stay.
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@Gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
subspecies to species is easy - no more fertile offsprings.
That may be true in the animal kingdom. It's very far from true in the plant kingdom. There are fertile hybrids from not only very different species, but different (but related} genera. No useful definition of "species" could consider these to be the same species:
Cattleya rex from Peru and Bolivia:
Brassavola subulifolia from Jamaica:
Laelia marginata from Suriname:
Yet all can be freely interbred with each other and their offspring. (I don't know whether anyone has actually hybridized those particular species, but I expect it would be possible; other species in their respective genera are commonly used in inter-generic hybridization.)
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@heterodox said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
What I see here is that life is more complicated than mathematics
and doesn't like to fit into neat little categories. One topic that is almost certain to start an argument among biologists is whether two organisms that are almost but not quite the same are sufficiently different to be different species (or even genera) or similar enough to be simply ordinary variations, or should be categorized as varieties or subspecies.
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@jinpa said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
Check out http://tolweb.org/tree/ , and their use of terms like "monophyletic".
What's the problem? All I can think of is that para- and polyphyletic classifications are kinda dumb. Also that there's no information on pterosaurs beyond archosaurs.
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@kazitor said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@jinpa said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
Check out http://tolweb.org/tree/ , and their use of terms like "monophyletic".
What's the problem? All I can think of is that para- and polyphyletic classifications are kinda dumb. Also that there's no information on pterosaurs beyond archosaurs.
I didn't mean it was a problem, just that it's an interesting site. I especially like their random page feature, and then working my way back up the tree to a visited page.
Don't know why you would think that para- and polyphyletic classifications would be dumb.
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@jinpa said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
Don't know why you would think that para- and polyphyletic classifications would be dumb.
Kinda dumb, in that they're not quite as meaningful. I get that they can be more helpful for describing certain physical features, but I guess there just needs to be more emphasis on how their members relate.
Anyway, Tree of Life looks like a good site; the sort of thing I've wanted to see for some time but haven't bothered to look for. If only it were less bare in certain areas.
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@Gąska said in ORDER DRIVER'S LICENSE WHATSAPP +1(202) 555-0195:
@boomzilla you know what is also complicated? Quantum physics. But you know what quantum physics does not have? Vague terms. If they can have precise terminology, so can kitten stalkers and gardeners.
Kitten stalking, as a field, is well-known to require only the vagueest of terms.
