Pronoun conflict
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If someone is gender A and they're controlling a character of gender B, which gender performs the actions of the character?
For example, in this video, did "he
" or "she 
" do the first recorded Sheever Ravage?Epic Sheever, SingSing and Puppey Tidehunter Ravage – 01:22
— NAVI Dota 2Here's an even more confusing one: Ben Lubar (male, human) is controlling Blergo (male, asura) who is controlling a memory of Caithe (female, sylvari). Which one got the achievement for not being touched by moving sand?
Dodgy Crowd – 00:57
— Ben Lubar
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@ben_lubar
If I know the gender of the player, that's the pronoun I use. Unless we're in a heated teamfight and I switch back to the default gender of the character.
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I use the gender of the character who was in control. So in your second example it'd be "he", Blergo. (If Blergo was using a BattleMech instead of another person, you wouldn't say "it" did it; you'd still say "he" did it.)
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Pronoun conflict:
So in your second example it'd be "he", Blergo. (If Blergo was using a BattleMech instead of another person, you wouldn't say "it" did it; you'd still say "he" did it.)
If Taimi (female) uses Scruffy 2.0 (gender never specified, but the original Scruffy was called "he" by Taimi) to do something, did "he" or "she" do it?
Scruffy 2.0 (Guild Wars 2)
Basically a robot wheelchair for one of our asura characters. Had some help from our concept artist on this one but ended up changing a lot to fit our needs and the rig.
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@ben_lubar I haven't played GW2, but going off your description and about thirty seconds of research I think that I'd say "she" did it. It may be called "he" but supposedly golems aren't self-aware; "he" can't really do anything. No more than a gun with a name can be said to shoot someone.
If Scruffy is self-aware, then it's probably best to use "they", rather than trying to assign credit to one or the other.
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I’d use the gender of the player if I know that, else that of the character — since that’s the only thing you really have to go on unless you know something about the player, it seems the most logical choice.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Pronoun conflict:
@ben_lubar I haven't played GW2, but going off your description and about thirty seconds of research I think that I'd say "she" did it. It may be called "he" but supposedly golems aren't self-aware; "he" can't really do anything. No more than a gun with a name can be said to shoot someone.
If Scruffy is self-aware, then it's probably best to use "they", rather than trying to assign credit to one or the other.
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns - Taimi & Scruffy cutscene – 01:00
— Fono V
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@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"he
"How do you watermelon?
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"she
"How do you Netherlands?
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@RaceProUK said in Pronoun conflict:
How do you watermelon?
Tidehunter is basically a watermelon that lives in the ocean and hits stuff with a large metal object.
@RaceProUK said in Pronoun conflict:
How do you Netherlands?
I assume the same way I am America and so can you.
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@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns - Taimi & Scruffy cutscene – 01:00
— Fono VThe wiki lied to me.
In that cutscenes, he's acting independently, so I'd say he did it. (It sounded like she literally rode Scruffy, from what I read before.)
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@RaceProUK said in Pronoun conflict:
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"he
"How do you watermelon?
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"she
"How do you Netherlands?
Why did the Netherlands steal Pepsi's trademark?
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@Dreikin said in Pronoun conflict:
@RaceProUK said in Pronoun conflict:
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"he
"How do you watermelon?
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"she
"How do you Netherlands?
Why did the Netherlands steal Pepsi's trademark?
Well, way back when they just had to travel forward a couple hundred years in their time machine to find some cool colours.
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@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
If someone is gender A and they're controlling a character of gender B, which gender performs the actions of the character?
Depends on context., Especially on the in-character vs. real world contexts when deciding over the game/irl boundary, which is further complicated by roleplaying and/or perceiving the character they play as an independent individual. In-game, it depends on the story context. Are you "really" controlling the character or just playing through a memory, for example.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Pronoun conflict:
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns - Taimi & Scruffy cutscene – 01:00
— Fono VThe wiki lied to me.
In that cutscenes, he's acting independently, so I'd say he did it. (It sounded like she literally rode Scruffy, from what I read before.)
She does. That blue part on top folds away to reveal a seat.
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@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
If someone is gender A and they're controlling a character of gender B, which gender performs the actions of the character?
Oh that question? Use a gender neutral pronoun unless the person has specified a preference.
that way the problem disappears. you don't assume anything and you don't accidentally insult someone, at worst you get odd looks from someone cis for using as gender neutral pronoun, but unless they've got a bug up their butt that won't matter.
:-D
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@accalia said in Pronoun conflict:
unless they've got a bug up their butt that won't matter
If they have a bug up their butt, they may wish to see a doctor.
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@RaceProUK said in Pronoun conflict:
@accalia said in Pronoun conflict:
unless they've got a bug up their butt that won't matter
If they have a bug up their butt, they may wish to see a doctor.
Or perhaps the CIA, depending on who planted it there.
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@RaceProUK said in Pronoun conflict:
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"she "
How do you Netherlands?
Their flag is a Pepsi logo? Cool
Edit: didn't see it was already said, that's what I get for replying before reading the entire topic
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Pronoun conflict:
(It sounded like she literally rode Scruffy, from what I read before.)
Obligatory
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@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
Here's an even more confusing one: Ben Lubar (male, human) is controlling Blergo (male, asura) who is controlling a memory of Caithe (female, sylvari). Which one got the achievement for not being touched by moving sand?
Achievements are for the player, not the characters, IMO
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@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
If someone is gender A and they're controlling a character of gender B, which gender performs the actions of the character?
Both them. I expect NPC to talk with the character ignoring the player.
If the narrator is telling a history from the past, as it happen in some games, he will refer to the character too. It's all in the context.
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@RaceProUK said in Pronoun conflict:
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"he
"How do you watermelon?
Easy. You eat out the melon, the spit out the seed.
@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
"she
"How do you Netherlands?
Easy, you jump up and down on the land down below.
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They all did it, but it usually makes the most sense to refer to the actions of the human person responsible for doing the controlling. If you know their gender, you'd use that gender to refer to them.
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@anotherusername I feel like it depends on the sentiment too. If I (she/her) am controlling Link (he/him) and I make a badass jump, showing my skill at the game, my husband might say "Look what she managed to pull off!" On the other hand, if I get lost with my poor sense of direction in dungeons, he might say "she's gotten lost again". But if I hit the attack button and I get stabbed instead of attacking, I might say "Link's such a dumbass, he doesn't attack when I tell him to". Similarly, if I'm playing more of an RPG, and the game won't let me pick the option I'd like to say to an NPC, I might say "He's being a bitch", but if it lets me say what I wanted, I might say "I fucking scored with this chick dude".
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@Yamikuronue yeah; on some occasions it makes sense to talk about the character, and you use their gender when you do. Usually though you talk about the person controlling the character and then you use the person's gender.
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@anotherusername The psychology of when we say "I" and when we blame the game or the character fascinates me :D It's the same question, from the point of view of the player.
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@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
If someone is gender A and they're controlling a character of gender B, which gender performs the actions of the character?
You can say about both of them that they performed the action, so either is correct - depending on whether you focus on "someone" or on "character" in your narration.
Here's an even more confusing one: Ben Lubar (male, human) is controlling Blergo (male, asura) who is controlling a memory of Caithe (female, sylvari). Which one got the achievement for not being touched by moving sand?
Again - any of them achieved that, depending on what you're saying. If you're just bragging how cool you are that you avoided
lavasand, it's Ben Lubar, the player. If you're feeling RP-y, it's Blergo, your avatar in game. If you're narrating events as seen by bystanders, it's Caithe, who actually did this.That was about "not being touched by moving sand". The "get the achievement" part is special because achievements don't exist in the game world, but are part of metagame. So, out of the three, only Ben Lubar can say they've got the achievement.
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@Gąska said in Pronoun conflict:
So, out of the three, only Ben Lubar can say they've got the achievement.
Except that characters are aware of their achievements.
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@ben_lubar Anything that isn't completely ridiculous will work just fine.
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Nyx nyxnyx. Nyxnyxnyxnyxnyx nyxnyx nyxnyxnyxnyxnyx nyxnyxnyx nyxnyxnyxnyxnyx nyxnyx nyx nyxnyxnyx nyxnyx nyxnyxnyx.
Nyxnyx!
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@JazzyJosh send bitcoin to [redacted - bz] to get your post unencrypted
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@ben_lubar said in Pronoun conflict:
@Gąska said in Pronoun conflict:
So, out of the three, only Ben Lubar can say they've got the achievement.
Except that characters are aware of their achievements.
OK, then it can be said by Ben Lubar and the guy in the middle of food chain that I cannot look up the name of because I'm on mobile. But the lobotomized lady still can't.
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@wharrgarbl fun fact: I thought ransomware is a mythical creature found only on the most infected of XP installations that I will never be able to see in my entire life (due to my whole family having received basic internet security education). I was wrong - saw it on my first day in computer repair shop.
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@Gąska said in Pronoun conflict:
@wharrgarbl fun fact: I thought ransomware is a mythical creature found only on the most infected of XP installations that I will never be able to see in my entire life (due to my whole family having received basic internet security education). I was wrong - saw it on my first day in computer repair shop.
My local news station just told me that "the US didn't get hit as hard as other countries because we use up-to-date versions of Microsoft".
I guess it's no worse than the usual "you can download our app for Android and Apples".
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@ben_lubar it is worse - USA is more behind than Europe on average, update-wise.
