YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint)
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No backup of important data
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Windows 10
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Geek Squad
Three strikes and you're out.
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Microsoft doesn't think much of the lawsuit. "The Windows 10 free upgrade program was a choice
no
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@El_Heffe said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
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No backup of important data
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Windows 10
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Geek Squad
Three strikes and you're out.
umm........ that's eight strikes......
the no backup gets one strike for each violation of the 3-2-1 rule, for a total of 6.
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With any sense, that case will be laughed out of court.
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According to the complaint, Windows 10 installed itself onto plaintiff Stephanie Watson's computer without her consent and then erased data, some of it related to her work.
That sucks
She hired Geek Squad to repair the machine, with only partial success,
Not the best call, but I could see that being the only option you have handy if you're a small businessperson
and ended up having to purchase a new computer.
Wait what? Why? Does she think her old data will be on a new hard drive?
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@RaceProUK said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
With any sense, that case will be laughed out of court.
"$10,000 fine for not backing up your files. Next!"
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But seriously:
- "The complaint enumerates a number of alleged problems with the way the Windows 10 update presents itself to Windows users, noting that it "often installs itself without any action being taken by the consumer."". The free update program ended a long time ago, so this must have been a $120 purchase, which definitely counts as an action taken.
- While I could see the "upgrade" breaking your computer, the "work files" should still be there. I really don't see the installer deleting anything in "my documents" or the desktop, or any other place outside C:/Windows.
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@anonymous234 You'd be fucking astonished how many morons keep shit in the special directories.
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I kind of assume her files were still there, but the software to read them broke. And she bought a new PC because neither she nor Geek Squad could figure out how to reinstall Windows 7. Or provide a VM.
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@Yamikuronue said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
I kind of assume her files were still there, but the software to read them broke. And she bought a new PC because neither she nor Geek Squad could figure out how to reinstall Windows 7. Or provide a VM.
^ $50 on that.
I hope those people don't get rewarded for their stupidity. They have absolutely no proof that Windows 10 physically damaged their devices or deleted valuable data.
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@Yamikuronue My bet is that the installer broke her system somehow, and Geek Squad failed to tell her they could still (easily) recover the files.
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@Yamikuronue said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
And she bought a new PC because neither she nor Geek Squad could figure out how to reinstall Windows 7. Or provide a VM.
Or reinstall the broken software and get it working again.
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@accalia said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@El_Heffe said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
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No backup of important data
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Windows 10
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Geek Squad
Three strikes and you're out.
umm........ that's eight strikes......
the no backup gets one strike for each violation of the 3-2-1 rule, for a total of 6.
I've always been a bit baffled by that.
Way back in the old days, when you had to crank your wooden hard drive by hand, it occurred to me that I should make a backup copy of my files, "just in case". Nobody told me to do this, it just seemed like common sense. Sort of like keeping important papers in a safe or metal box, in case there's a fire.
Instead, we now have people who have never lived in a time where powerful PCs didn't exist, and yet they are more computer-illiterate than ever.
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@RaceProUK said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
reinstall the broken software
Assuming it works on 10. I was figuring it's some monstrosity that's no longer supported and won't be getting updates.
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@bb36e said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
Microsoft doesn't think much of the lawsuit. "The Windows 10 free upgrade program was a choice
no
According to John Cable, director of program management in the Windows servicing and delivery team, "What we heard back most explicitly was that you want more control over when Windows 10 installs updates."
Unfortunately, Microsoft refuses to understand that "more control" includes the option of not installing Windows 10 at all.
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@Yamikuronue said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@RaceProUK said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
reinstall the broken software
Assuming it works on 10. I was figuring it's some monstrosity that's no longer supported and won't be getting updates.
I've yet to see anything work on 7 and not on 10
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@RaceProUK I'm fairly certain I could achieve it. It would be intentional nerfing, though.
Which is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect out of a fly by night vendor "supporting" small businesses.
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@RaceProUK said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
I've yet to see anything work on 7 and not on 10
We've got some piece of shit financial software like that. The vendor also explicitly refuses to support it on 10.
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@Yamikuronue said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
and ended up having to purchase a new computer.
Wait what? Why? Does she think her old data will be on a new hard drive?
Sure: run migration software to copy the old data to the new computer.
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The options presented by the GWX software were really obscure sometimes but I simply don't believe that it has installed on anyone's machine without consent.
In this case consent probably means "wtf is this window, i want it to go away - click"
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@LaoC said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@RaceProUK said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
I've yet to see anything work on 7 and not on 10
We've got some piece of shit financial software like that. The vendor also explicitly refuses to support it on 10.
Yes. You would be surprised (or maybe not) by the huge amount of shitty software being used by businesses. Stuff that will completely self-destruct if you even think about installing it on a different version of Windows.
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@El_Heffe There seems to be some rule that the more important a program is for business, the worse it is programmed.
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@anonymous234 said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@El_Heffe There seems to be some rule that the more important a program is for business, the worse it is programmed.
There is. The more important the program, more bargaining power to the company that makes it, and less effort they need to make on anything that doesn't completely stop it from being useable.
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@Weng said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@anonymous234 You'd be fucking astonished how many morons keep shit in the special directories.
If TFTS is to be believed, the most popular special directory is the Recycle Bin (or Deleted Items in Outlook).
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Microsoft somewhat deserves this.
Since windows 7 they have pretty much trampled over any control that regular naive users had over upgrades or arbitrary restarts. Windows users are fairly much at the mercy of when Microsoft will arbitrarily inflict the next update - a situation that is somewhat shit.
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@japonicus You already answered as to why they're doing this yourself.
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@japonicus Normal Windows users are idiots who go out of their way NOT to do updates. Then get mad when they get a virus.
It's obviously Microsoft's fault - despite the fact that the hole that virus came in was patched 3 years ago.
Microsoft is damned if they do - because people bitch about I'M LOSING MY CONTROL! They are damned if they don't - idiot users don't update and become increasingly vulnerable.
I think the GWX was a disaster of changing the fundamental way of updates (clicking X scheduled some updates)... but the reason behind it was simple: Users. Are. Stupid.
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@WernerCD said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
I think the GWX was a disaster of changing the fundamental way of updates (clicking X scheduled some updates)... but the reason behind it was simple: Users. Are. Stupid.
So they resolved the PEBKAC issue by removing the chair-keyboard interface from the equation. I can't blame them for wanting to do that, but dealing with customers is kind of the point of having a business. Sure, it'd be easier to write software if you didn't have to deal with the users, but you're not actually supposed to do that.
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@marczellm said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
I simply don't believe that it has installed on anyone's machine without consent.
If you consider "User was not opted out of automatic updates" as consent, sure!
@marczellm said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
In this case consent probably means "wtf is this window, i want it to go away - click"
Yep! Closing the window that's "supposed to delay" the installation apparently means "I'm OK with whatever you say, Overlord, sock it to me when you think it's a good time!"
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@El_Heffe said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@LaoC said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@RaceProUK said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
I've yet to see anything work on 7 and not on 10
We've got some piece of shit financial software like that. The vendor also explicitly refuses to support it on 10.
Yes. You would be surprised (or maybe not) by the huge amount of shitty software being used by businesses. Stuff that will completely self-destruct if you even think about installing it on a different version of Windows.
Or indeed software that still thinks it's on Vista when I installed it a few months ago. Wish I would have kept that screenshot...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
Or indeed software that still thinks it's on Vista when I installed it a few months ago. Wish I would have kept that screenshot...
It's totally beyond me why any regular software (i.e. not something like Process Explorer or other low-level system stuff) would even need to find out what version it's on. Wasn't that the whole fucking point of using Windows for most people, to have eternal[0] backwards compatibility? You can run Windows 3 applications on Windows 10 after all, so what the hell?
[0] For smallish values of "eternal". If looking for eternal™, you want z/OS of course.
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@LaoC said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
You can run Windows 3 applications on Windows 10 after all, so what the hell?
False, they got rid of 16-bit support since like, Windows 7 in the 64-bit version.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@LaoC said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
You can run Windows 3 applications on Windows 10 after all, so what the hell?
False, they got rid of 16-bit support since like, Windows 7 in the 64-bit version.
This is correct. Also, over the ages various things have been deprecated and a handful of them have been actually removed.
And Microsoft has been enforcing security practices. That's what really breaks the most things - apps that were written to do Whatever The Fuck They Wanted back in the XP era.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
You can run Windows 3 applications on Windows 10 after all, so what the hell?
False, they got rid of 16-bit support since like, Windows 7 in the 64-bit version.
Apparently there is a 32-bit version that does include 16-bit support though.
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I would like to point out that the lack of 16-bit support is due to AMD's design (and Intel's and VIA's implementation of) x86-64. If the processor is switched to "long mode," it is incapable of running 16-bit real mode or virtual 8086 code at all. For Windows to support this ancient code would require full emulation. Microsoft decided "fuck that shit" (rightly so, IMO) and implemented it only for some installers.
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@bb36e said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
Microsoft doesn't think much of the lawsuit. "The Windows 10 free upgrade program was a choice
no
Yes. You could choose "Right now" or "Slightly later".
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@LaoC said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
You can run Windows 3 applications on Windows 10 after all, so what the hell?
False, they got rid of 16-bit support since like, Windows 7 in the 64-bit version.
Apparently there is a 32-bit version that does include 16-bit support though.
Yeah, Windows XP Mode, which is really just Windows XP in a VM.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@LaoC said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
You can run Windows 3 applications on Windows 10 after all, so what the hell?
False, they got rid of 16-bit support since like, Windows 7 in the 64-bit version.
Apparently there is a 32-bit version that does include 16-bit support though.
Yeah, Windows XP Mode, which is really just Windows XP in a VM.
Pretty sure Windows 7 x86 supported 16bit programs. Just not x64
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@anonymous234 said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
I really don't see the installer deleting anything in "my documents" or the desktop, or any other place outside C:/Windows.
We've covered this earlier. What can happen is that after the update you end up with a new Windows profile, and if you're an ordinary civilian who doesn't know a profile from a cheese grater, you can't find your stuff any more.
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@anonymous234 said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
My bet is that the installer broke her system somehow, and Geek Squad failed to tell her they could still (easily) recover the files.
Which would be because they couldn't.
Which would be not because the files were not easily recoverable, but because Geek Squad.
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@El_Heffe said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
we now have people who have never lived in a time where powerful PCs didn't exist, and yet they are more computer-illiterate than ever.
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@Weng said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
That's what really breaks the most things - apps that were written to do Whatever The Fuck They Wanted back in the
XPWindows 95 era.Looking at you, Quickbooks.
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@sloosecannon said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@LaoC said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
You can run Windows 3 applications on Windows 10 after all, so what the hell?
False, they got rid of 16-bit support since like, Windows 7 in the 64-bit version.
Apparently there is a 32-bit version that does include 16-bit support though.
Yeah, Windows XP Mode, which is really just Windows XP in a VM.
Pretty sure Windows 7 x86 supported 16bit programs. Just not x64
It's kinda dicey, since back in Windows NT (I believe) even then it was somewhat virtualized.
Some poor Google Fu:
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@Tsaukpaetra said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
Apparently there is a 32-bit version that does include 16-bit support though.
Yeah, Windows XP Mode, which is really just Windows XP in a VM.
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@SirTwist said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
I would like to point out that the lack of 16-bit support is due to AMD's design (and Intel's and VIA's implementation of) x86-64. If the processor is switched to "long mode," it is incapable of running 16-bit real mode or virtual 8086 code at all. For Windows to support this ancient code would require full emulation. Microsoft decided "fuck that shit" (rightly so, IMO) and implemented it only for some installers.
They didn't actually implement it in installers, they just run a 32-bit version thereof instead.
But they did implement it in Microsoft Virtual PC, where 32-bit emulated OSes can run 16-bit programs, even if the emulator itself is running on Win64.
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A company is designing their website. They add an "open in app" advertisement. They can't use computers.
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@LaoC said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
It's totally beyond me why any regular software (i.e. not something like Process Explorer or other low-level system stuff) would even need to find out what version it's on.
Because Windows version N is significantly different from version N+3 and version N-3. Because a lot of programs are shit and do things that only work purely by coincidence because of (or in spite of) some bug or quirk in Windows. Until Microsoft fixes it.
A few years ago, a friend of mine asked if I could take a look at his son's computer that wasn't working properly. (His son is an adult). I figured, worst case scenario, I wipe the hard drive and re-install Windows 7 (the newest version of Windows, at that time) along with the latest versions of whatever other programs I had.
The computer was running Windows 98.
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@anonymous234 This is how they generate their links: https://medium.com/@echohack/echohacks-mental-tools-for-programmers-17f5534f21ce?source=user_profile---------10-----------
The --10-- indicates that it was the 10th post on the page (not joking).
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@El_Heffe said in YAWTC (Yet Another Windows Ten Complaint):
a lot of programs are shit and do things that only work purely by coincidence
This is universally true.