DRAM compatibility
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@HardwareGeek You are called HardwareGeek and you hate dealing with Hardware ... OKAY ...
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@lucas1 I understand what goes on in hardware inside chips. I don't necessarily understand how random assortments of chips, disks, networks and whatnot interact with each other, BIOS software, and OS software in subtle and inscrutable ways, and I seem not to have good luck at getting them to cooperate with each other.
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@HardwareGeek I was taking the piss a bit.
I would run memtest86 against the two ram modules that seem to be a problem to see if there are errors.
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@lucas1 Hmm. The F2 pre-boot diagnostics don't even try to test beyond the 16GB it recognizes as valid, but it's worth a shot.
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@HardwareGeek
That suggests to me that the RAM is either not installed in the expected slots (though I'm assuming you have the slots all full?) or that you need a BIOS update.
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@izzion Good shout.
@HardwareGeek Does the board post with the bad ram?
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@lucas1 All slots are full, all with (in theory) identical DIMMs. Board reports:
DRAM error in DIMM 3 [or whatever]
Press F1 to continue, F2 to run diagnostics, F5 to change settings.Or something like that; I may have swapped which key does what.
If I run diagnostics, it shows all 4 CPU cores slamming the memory with a couple of different test data patterns, roughly 3 GB at a time, up to 16 GB. It doesn't even try to test the other 8 GB.
If I go into the BIOS setup menu, it correctly shows all slots populated with the correct size and type of DRAM.
Speaking of the BIOS setup menu, I discovered that hyperthreading was, for some unknown reason, disabled. Also virtualization, but I have no compelling reason to enable it at the moment
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@HardwareGeek
Yeah, that sounds to me like the other two RAM sticks are either flat out bad, or not compatible with the main four. If the system POSTs with the two sticks that are detecting bad with all 6 in, then you're just the lucky winner of cross-brand incompatibility (or those two aren't the specs they're supposed to be)
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@HardwareGeek Boot the machine
- Each ram stick singular (if that is possible I dunno)
- Then in pairs.
- Then all.
I know you aren't getting to number 3. Also unplug everything except for the GPU and the RAM.
Check that each situation posts. You should be able to isolate it down to a smaller set of configurations of your hardware at least.
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@izzion said in DRAM compatibility:
cross-brand incompatibility
Same brand (Kingston), same part number.
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@HardwareGeek said in DRAM compatibility:
@Tsaukpaetra Ok, I think I've figured out a mostly consistent pattern. It seems like it reports the error in the lower-numbered slot of a particular pair of DIMMs.
The difference in coloration between the sticks does not sound to me like they're the same Kingston part number - I've found Kingston to generally be pretty consistent about changing part numbers when they change chips or circuit board material, so I wonder if someone pulled a "put the new label on the old RAM and return it".
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@izzion That could well be it. But let @HardwareGeek try a set of combinations that doesn't POST. That will be the real proof of the pudding.
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@lucas1 They look identical except the edges of the board material. But I'll double-check when I get home tonight.
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@HardwareGeek Read above a little. I think you should "build up" until the machine doesn't POST or boot an OS.
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@lucas1 Yes, I'll do that, too. But it's all moot until I'm home.
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@HardwareGeek okay fair enough.
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Could it also be that the MB/CPU is only capable of 16GB?
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@PleegWat That is a officially gay number for a Xeon board.
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@PleegWat According to the spec sheet I found, it supports a maximum of 24, but only in a specific configuration (6 DIMMs of 4 GB each, only with ECC), so that's exactly what I bought. Hmm. I think; it would certainly be worth double-checking that it is, in fact, ECC. I'm 99% sure that's what it said on the Newegg website.
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@PleegWat said in DRAM compatibility:
Could it also be that the MB/CPU is only capable of 16GB?
Could also be that the mobo handles full DIMM slots just fine, but the BIOS that's in it right now has decided that 16GB should be enough for anybody. I've seen lots of Dell configuration issues resolve after BIOS updates.
Another possibility is that the capacitors on that mobo are drying out, and the extra load of 6 DIMMs as compared to 4 is enough to tip the VRM over the line for acceptable power rail noise. Look for electrolytics with bulging tops.
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@HardwareGeek You said you wasn't going to buy EEC, I seem to remember?
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@HardwareGeek Should be easy enough to see; I believe non-ECC have a power-of-two number of chips and ECC has one or two extra.
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@HardwareGeek said in DRAM compatibility:
Not ECC. I use this machine for surfing, occasionally playing games, and playing with GIMP and Blender. Ecc would be nice, but for my use not really worth the extra money.
Voltage. I don't remember, but I'm sure it's part of the info I found. I'll check again before I go to Fry's.
Call Dell? Actually talk to a human? Even if such a thing actually exists in their call center, which is highly doubtful, my machine is so old it's probably not on the hell desk script. If it is, it probably just says, transfer to Sales for replacement with current model. </cynicism>
CPU-Z: I'll take a look at that; sounds useful.
Never call Dell if you can use the online chat.
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@lucas1 said in DRAM compatibility:
@HardwareGeek You said you wasn't going to buy EEC, I seem to remember?
I did say that, but then I found the board specs that say it only supports maxed-out memory if it's ECC, so that's what I bought. I think I mentioned that in a post somewhere up-thread, but I CBA to look for it, so I don't expect you to, either.
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@HardwareGeek okay fair enough, my mistake
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@lucas1 said in DRAM compatibility:
I would run memtest86 against the two ram modules that seem to be a problem
Board wouldn't even POST with only either those two DIMMs installed. It would POST and boot Windows with a single DIMM from the other lot.
@HardwareGeek said in DRAM compatibility:
They look identical except the edges of the board material. But I'll double-check when I get home tonight.
Not as much as I thought. The are the same Kingston part number, and the packaging is identical except for a number I would guess is a lot code, which is different in one digit.
However, the DIMMs are significantly different. All part numbers match the packaging and each other. Lot code (or whatever) numbers are different. The working DIMMs have 9 RAM chips on one side of the DIMM; the other side has no components. The non-working DIMMs have 5 RAM chips on the opposite side of the board and 4 RAM chips plus an Inphi INSSTE32882XV 1.5/1.35/1.25V DDR3 Registering Clock Driver with Parity Checking chip on the front side. But they have the same part number as the working ones, and there is no sign of either the label or packaging having been tampered with.
So for now I'm running with 4 DIMMs, 16 GB, installed, and I'll have to return the other two DIMMs to Newegg. The annoying thing (besides having to return the two DIMMs) is that the board complains about a "non-optimal memory configuration" every time I boot and won't continue without manual intervention ("Press F1 to continue"). Apparently, it likes 1, 2, 3 or 6 DIMMs installed, not 4.
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@HardwareGeek said in DRAM compatibility:
Apparently, it likes 1, 2, 3 or 6 DIMMs installed, not 4.
1, sure. 2, OK, parity. 3? WTF?
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@Tsaukpaetra
His CPU is a triple-channel CPU. So 3 or 6 are the ideal configurations (and DELL likes to sell servers with shit for RAM, so they allow for 1 or 2 sticks as well).
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@HardwareGeek
Huh, that's really weird that they would assign the same part number to both a registered and unregistered (unbuffered) stick of RAM. Those two things are very much not compatible with each other, and usually with Kingston I would expect to see a -R after/as part of the model number on the registered ECC RAM.That's definitely the incompatibility though. I would expect the motherboard documentation should call out that it's only compatible with unbuffered/unregistered (the two terms get used kind of interchangeably, though unbuffered is the more technically correct term) ECC RAM.
Also, as far as the "non-optimal memory configuration", what slots do you have the 4 working sticks in? It's possible that slots 1,2,4,5 or 2,3,5,6 might allow for the memory to work in a kind of dual-channel mode that wouldn't complain about the configuration at every reboot.
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@izzion 1,2,4,5
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@izzion said in DRAM compatibility:
with Kingston I would expect to see a -R after/as part of the model number on the registered ECC RAM.
(
) x 1000I've looked at it so many times and didn't see it. KVR13LR9S8/4 vs. KVR13LE9S8/4 How did I not see that before?
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@HardwareGeek
This is how us server guys make the HPC bucks. Hide the critical information in the middle of a big wall of letters and numbers, that way nobody else can make heads or tails of it
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@izzion
Also, if I can indulge in a little story time...This is also why I, as a server guy, don't build my own servers but rather order them from a systems integrator. I used to use a whitebox integrator (basically, a small business version of Dell or HP, putting together parts from the Intel chassis & motherboard list and generally about 10-20% cheaper than a comparably spec'd Dell/HP), and when they abruptly went dark we had an open quote that we couldn't profitably satisfy with a Dell/HP, so we tried to whitebox it ourself. The parts list our previous integrator sent over didn't really have specific part numbers, but included enough technical information that I could (after several hours) piece together what parts we needed. Get everything in, put the parts together (it's just like a desktop on a larger scale, right???) and turn it on... and the fans never slowed down from the POST max speed. Ever.
Scrounge through the BIOS, can't find anything to control fan speed. Try installing Windows, maybe the problem will go away once the system is fully up and running? LOLNOPE.
Turns out, there's a utility disc that you have to run, not provided directly with the motherboard (you have to download it from Intel's site) that allows you to configure what are effectively advanced BIOS settings, including telling the motherboard which chassis it's operating with, so that it can control the fans correctly.
Yes, that's right, server motherboards are engineered so that they need to know specifically what chassis & fan arrangement it's working with, and they default to just "max out all the fans!!!" until you tell them what they're working with. And not even God can help you if you mix and match a motherboard with an unsupported chassis.
Thus ended our foray into being our own whitebox integrator -- we went with Dell or HP servers from there on, and didn't tinker with any of the parts except the very rare RAM expansion, which we sourced through Dell or HP support whenever possible. Because the server "enthusiast build" market is basically one giant
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At least I know what the problem is and what I need to get instead. They had 6 of the right ones in stock at 15% off, but they had "limit 5 per customer." I wonder if they still have them. If so, maybe I'll have my son order the last two.
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@HardwareGeek Are you having That Feeling When you find out that the thing you ordered, which is completely wrong, is exactly as the vendor described it?
I hate that feeling.
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@izzion said in DRAM compatibility:
Because the server "enthusiast build" market is basically one giant
huh..... i should look into getting into that.....; bet i could make big bucks if i get gud at that.
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@accalia
Eh, maybe. But I doubt it. At this point Core i7 Extreme hardware is at least as performant as the types of Xeons people used for power user workstations back in the day of @HardwareGeek's current system, meaning the server side is mostly for businesses. Of which you're going to have two varieties: the businesses with the "save every single penny" type decision maker, who are going to be shitty customers, and the businesses who are going to stick with Dell or HP because of the name (no one ever got fired for buying ${BIGNAMEBRAND})I think whiteboxing really only works at this point if you can sell through a trusted MSP like @Polygeekery, and still be enough cheaper than Dell and HP to let @Polygeekery
keep more money in his evil moneygrubbing capitalist pocketslook good to the customer who he just saved money for.
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@izzion said in DRAM compatibility:
I think whiteboxing really only works at this point if you can sell through a trusted MSP like @Polygeekery,
so what you're saying is i should get into it and ghen sell my services to @Polygeekery for my actual client?
hmm.... he's a bit of an ass, but otherwise a pretty chill guy all things considered. yeah i could keep him as a client.
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@izzion said in DRAM compatibility:
I think whiteboxing really only works at this point if you can sell through a trusted MSP like @Polygeekery, and still be enough cheaper than Dell and HP to let @Polygeekery keep more money in his evil moneygrubbing capitalist pockets look good to the customer who he just saved money for.
Then whiteboxing does not work. One support claim that you spend a few hours rectifying without being able to bill to the client would kill the thin margins on hardware sales. It is better to set up a sales lead account with Dell and receive a commission and not have to worry about servicing warranty claims for free.
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@flabdablet said in DRAM compatibility:
@HardwareGeek Are you having That Feeling When you find out that the thing you ordered, which is completely wrong, is exactly as the vendor described it?
I hate that feeling.
Probably, but I haven't had the chance yet to go to Newegg.com and verify that what I got is indeed what I ordered, and TRWTF is me. I probably won't until after a meeting today.
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@HardwareGeek I've done the same with laptop hardware memory that was supposed to be compatible. It is a minefield sometimes.
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@Polygeekery said in DRAM compatibility:
@accalia said in DRAM compatibility:
hmm.... he's a bit of an ass
I apparently need to try harder.
You're at least a byte of an ass.
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@HardwareGeek said in DRAM compatibility:
@Polygeekery said in DRAM compatibility:
@accalia said in DRAM compatibility:
hmm.... he's a bit of an ass
I apparently need to try harder.
You're at least a byte of an ass.
hmm..... not sober, no. but let me get half a bottle of capn' morgan's in me and i'll give you a revised opinion.
