Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing
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I just watched Doctor Strange now that it's out on video. It came with bonus content, and near the end, there's this part where Tilda Swinson (the actress who played The Ancient One) says that the MCU has always been for the fans, and these films are being made by the fans, for the fans. And at several points in the bonus content, various actors talked about how much they loved comic books growing up.
And suddenly I thought about how many times we've seen people talking about how the folks running the crapfests that have been the DCU movies have no background in Batman or Superman or all the rest; that it's just another writing or directing job to them. And I thought about how with some of the truly awful Star Trek TNG movies, the people running them and writing them had no background in Star Trek, and they turned out really, really bad work.
It all kind of makes sense when you look at it that way, doesn't it?
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Obvious counterexample: Jeri Ryan didn't even know what a Borg was when she was cast as 7 of 9, and she turned out to be probably the best thing that ever happened to Voyager. Maybe she's sort of the exception that proves the rule?
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@masonwheeler But are we talking about acting or screenwriting? It can make a big difference IMO.
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@Tsaukpaetra Yeah, that's another big part of it.
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It's complicated.
MCU is much more expansive in scope. The Netflix universe connects with the Disney universe which connect with the Hollywood universe. There is lots of fan service. There are lots of "teams" -- the Avengers, SHIELD, HYDRA, the X-Men (which I guess isn't officially MCU at the moment), the Thanos and the other cosmic guys, etc.
But the movies are pretty much just super hero themed cartoons.
DCU doesn't feel as big. There's Super Man and his cast. There's Batman and his cast. And there's occasionally a Green Lantern (or even some Justice League, which includes the three I mentioned). There are a lot of good Batman stories, and a couple of good Superman stories.
Some have been made into okay movies.
I know there are more DCU characters, but who are they? The Watchmen is the only other crew I can think of (not a DC guy, obviously), and even they weren't confirmed to be a part of the DCU until this year.
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I am actually working my way through the MCU now (in in-universe chronological order). I'm currently on Iron Man 2. Like, literally right now. It's on that monitor ==>
Tony Stark is drinking a martini.Having seen more of the DC movies than the Marvel movies (how the fuck did that happen?) I concur.
Also, the Marvel source material is better.
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MCU "Let's put in a joke cameo at the end of a movie and HOLY FUCKING SHIT PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR MINDS AT THE THOUGHT OF A MCU!!!!! Okay, guys, here's what we do. Everything ties together. Fucking everything. The next movie? Avengers cameo. The one after that, cameo. People want to see these characters together, fine, Avengers movie. EVERYTHING ties together. The TV shows? Tie together. The movies? Together. The miniseries? Together. Everything connects."
DCU "nerds hate continuity and vast, sweeping mythologies. so let's take our most popular movie series, Batman, and reboot it so it doesn't count anymore. also let's make sure all our tv series don't tie in together. and also our really popular tv characters arrow and flash don't count for the new movie. also gotham is, like, separate. again-- nerds HATE continuity."
MCU "I WILL THROW A DART AT THE Z-LIST CHARACTER BOARD AND MAKE A WATCHABLE MOVIE! LOL FUN MOVIE GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY!"
DCU "uhhhh--- we have that too, um, Aquaman is a character, yeah. also uh--- suicide squad is like, fun and pop music because um, that's what the MCU cargo cult does?"
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@Lorne-Kates Sounds like the mouse-over text for The End (web comic).
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@Weng said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
I am actually working my way through the MCU now (in in-universe chronological order). I'm currently on Iron Man 2. Like, literally right now. It's on that monitor ==>
Tony Stark is drinking a martini.Is it powered by the Oracle Cloud?
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@Groaner said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Weng said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
I am actually working my way through the MCU now (in in-universe chronological order). I'm currently on Iron Man 2. Like, literally right now. It's on that monitor ==>
Tony Stark is drinking a martini.Is it powered by the Oracle Cloud?
Ugh.
We haven't said it enough recently, so, Fuck Oracle.
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@masonwheeler the Dublin City University was never about making movies, anyway.
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@sloosecannon Fuck Oracle, give them lots of money?
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@loopback0 said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@sloosecannon Fuck Oracle, give them lots of money?
Has @Lorne-Kates become CEO?
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@RaceProUK I hope not - I don't want to be giving both Lorne and Oracle money.
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@Captain said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
I know there are more DCU characters, but who are they?
Steel, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, future-batman, The Flash (times four), Wonder Woman, another future-batman, Booster Gold, Static... a billion other Lanterns?
Honestly the DCU has far less fun characters. Most of them are just retreads of the same basic concepts. It's a shame; they really had something with the DCAU, but they threw that away.
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@Yamikuronue said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Steel
Know what, maybe it's better they stick to Batman.
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@Maciejasjmj Batman is far and away their best. When he's not being their worst.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Yamikuronue said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Steel
Know what, maybe it's better they stick to Batman.
Hey, it was better than Shaq-Fu!
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@Onyx Oh, they did that too:
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@Yamikuronue wait, there was a cartoon??
I only knew about the crappy videogame...
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@Onyx No, this was the cartoon Static Shock, episode "Static Shaq", guest-starring Shaq. But close enough.
Static Shock was..... not the best DCAU property. I appreciate their attempt to be inclusive but... damn.
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@Yamikuronue ah, OK, so that was potentially good. The game is... Well... I liked the colour pallete, I guess? It was pretty vibrant IIRC...
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@Onyx This is all you need to know:
Static Shock - Richie's Dad In "Sons of The Fathers" – [02:45..04:19] 04:19
— Calandra Russell-Lee(the whole clip is worth watching, but I linked to the worst 3 seconds for you)
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@Onyx said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Yamikuronue wait, there was a cartoon??
I only knew about the crappy videogame...
Oh, Shaq has a huuuge track record when it comes to crappy entertainment.
http://worldtruth.tv/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/image009.jpg
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@Groaner said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Is it powered by the Oracle Cloud?
You're one movie ahead:
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/10241/iron-man-is-now-powered-by-oracle
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@Yamikuronue said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Honestly the DCU has far less fun characters. Most of them are just retreads of the same basic concepts. It's a shame; they really had something with the DCAU, but they threw that away.
I don't know... Batman alone with his rogues and allies gallery has enough backstories and concepts to match over half of the MCU. Maybe they just don't need that many main characters and would be better off sticking to the Justice League and maybe one or two auxiliary ones and polishing the concept, instead of going Marvel's way of scraping the B-list.
Or just give Nolan a hell of a lot of money until he's physically unable to say "no". He knows what's good. I'd say Burton as well, but his latest fare wasn't all that great from what I know.
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@masonwheeler said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Doctor Strange
Kind of kept the illusion of being a good movie right up till that Avengers namedrop...
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@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Or just give Nolan a hell of a lot of money until he's physically unable to say "no". He knows what's good
His third Batman movie sucked
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@boomzilla said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Groaner said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Is it powered by the Oracle Cloud?
You're one movie ahead:
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/10241/iron-man-is-now-powered-by-oracle
Naw, that's definitely there in both 1 and 2 as well.
That said, I headcanon Oracle into a wholly owned subsidiary of Stark.
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@fbmac said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Or just give Nolan a hell of a lot of money until he's physically unable to say "no". He knows what's good
His third Batman movie sucked
It was slightly worse, but still better than anything Snyder released. And it picked a pretty solid story arc.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
better than anything Snyder released
Which one(s) did he release?
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@RaceProUK said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
better than anything Snyder released
Which one(s) did he release?
Out of DCU - Watchmen, Man of Steel, BvS, Suicide Squad, and pretty much all the upcoming ones.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Yamikuronue said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Honestly the DCU has far less fun characters. Most of them are just retreads of the same basic concepts. It's a shame; they really had something with the DCAU, but they threw that away.
I don't know... Batman alone with his rogues and allies gallery has enough backstories and concepts to match over half of the MCU. Maybe they just don't need that many main characters and would be better off sticking to the Justice League and maybe one or two auxiliary ones and polishing the concept, instead of going Marvel's way of scraping the B-list.
Or just give Nolan a hell of a lot of money until he's physically unable to say "no". He knows what's good. I'd say Burton as well, but his latest fare wasn't all that great from what I know.
I think what Marvel is doing works explicitly BECAUSE everybody started as B-list. Vanishingly few people who didn't actually read comics gave any fucks about Captain America, The Hulk or Iron Man. Fewer about Thor. NOBODY about Ant Man.
The big Marvel properties in terms of public headspace are Spiderman and Xmen. Because 90's Cartoons. An entire generation or two has strong opinions on those AND they both have established movie franchises that are unrelated to the main continuity. So they can sit on the back burner until the continuity stands on its own.
DC led with the characters that already had established movie franchises and headspace.
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@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Watchmen
I re-watched that a few months back, as it had been a while, and tbh, I could have done something else instead.
@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Suicide Squad
Is OK, but it's nowhere near Guardians of the Galaxy.
Not seen Man of Steel or BvS, but I've heard enough to know I'm not missing much. Plus, I have no interest in Ben Affleck doing bad impressions of Christian Bale.
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@fbmac said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
His second and third Batman movie sucked
FTFY
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@Weng said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
The big Marvel properties in terms of public headspace are Spiderman and Xmen. Because 90's Cartoons.
If we're basing it off 90's cartoons, then DC should be kicking ass. I remember the Spiderman and Xmen cartoons. They sucked. The Batman and Superman cartoons of that era were usually very good. A few years ago my then roommate bought all the complete series on DVD. They have mostly held up against time and nostalgia (as an aside, the 80's Transformers cartoon has not). Although with Batman it is a bit weird to have the world go from a 30's-styled modern world to a simply modern world.
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@mikehurley I never got into the X-Men cartoon in question, but I remember Spider-Man being the highlight of each Saturday morning.
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@Yamikuronue said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Captain said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
I know there are more DCU characters, but who are they?
Steel, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, future-batman, The Flash (times four), Wonder Woman, another future-batman, Booster Gold, Static... a billion other Lanterns?
Honestly the DCU has far less fun characters. Most of them are just retreads of the same basic concepts. It's a shame; they really had something with the DCAU, but they threw that away.
The Legion of Super-Heroes.
Just sayin'.
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@Weng said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Vanishingly few people who didn't actually read comics gave any fucks about Captain America, The Hulk or Iron Man.
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@RaceProUK said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Plus, I have no interest in Ben Affleck doing bad impressions of Christian Bale.
That wasn't the movie. The writing felt a bit weird for Batman but I was pleasantly surprised by his performance.
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@Yamikuronue said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Captain said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
I know there are more DCU characters, but who are they?
Steel, Martian Manhunter, Aquaman, future-batman, The Flash (times four), Wonder Woman, another future-batman, Booster Gold, Static... a billion other Lanterns?
Honestly the DCU has far less fun characters. Most of them are just retreads of the same basic concepts. It's a shame; they really had something with the DCAU, but they threw that away.
Shazaam, Superboy, Supergirl, Supergirl, Supergirl Wonder Girl, as @Yamikuronue pointed out, several people have had the mantel of the Flash, several people have had the mantle of Earth's Green Lantern, there's Cyborg, etc.
Man, they like to repeat them
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@boomzilla said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Weng said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Vanishingly few people who didn't actually read comics gave any fucks about Captain America, The Hulk or Iron Man.
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@abarker Still, DC's not the worst when it comes to cloning one character to make many: that honour goes to Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog comic:
And that's just a small sample.
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@boomzilla said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
That wasn't the movie. The writing felt a bit weird for Batman but I was pleasantly surprised by his performance.
He was surprisingly okay. But yeah, the script was stupid. Injustice had a better story than that, and it's a bloody fighting game.
Also, I need to once more express my love towards Jesse Eisenberg in this movie. He's so off the bat, out of character and tongue in cheek that it wraps around to awesome.
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@Weng said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@boomzilla said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
@Groaner said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Is it powered by the Oracle Cloud?
You're one movie ahead:
https://what.thedailywtf.com/topic/10241/iron-man-is-now-powered-by-oracle
Naw, that's definitely there in both 1 and 2 as well.
That said, I headcanon Oracle into a wholly owned subsidiary of Stark.
So that's how he can afford the suit
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@Maciejasjmj said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
Also, I need to once more express my love towards Jesse Eisenberg in this movie. He's so off the bat, out of character and tongue in cheek that it wraps around to awesome.
I did enjoy him, even if he didn't really fit the classic Luthor role. But then, when you're following Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey...also, I can't blame the actor for the way the character was written.
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First and foremost, it seemed like everyone was way out of character. Batman using guns. Alfred as a tech genius. Superman deciding the world sucks too much and he just feels like he wants to give up. An incompetent Lois Lane who knows who Clark Kent really is. Lex Luthor as a twitching, inappropriately-giggling psychotic who’s way too young for the role. (He’s played by Jesse Eisenberg, who I suppose has previous experience doing the origin story of a sociopathic billionaire CEO, but even so, he just doesn’t feel right.)
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I did enjoy him, even if he didn't really fit the classic Luthor role. But then, when you're following Gene Hackman and Kevin Spacey...also, I can't blame the actor for the way the character was written.
Why are we quoting our posts?
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@Weng said in Why the MCU is succeeding where the DCU is failing:
That said, I headcanon Oracle into a wholly owned subsidiary of Stark.
Oracle could be Stark's legal department
Zack Snyder - Wikipedia
