How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?
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I mean, when one is employed/works for peanuts as a trainee developer, how should their job look like?
Are people who had, maybe, one crash course in web development where they barely tried to cobble some pages together and other superficial knowledge, expected to know their way around fixing bugs in an existing public website on their own? Be proficient with devopsy tools? Know their way around, say, git and different workflows? Does a trainee still involve a trainer or is the poor sod expected to figure things on his or her own?
Asking for a friend who is overwhelmed and shocked right now.
Y'know, in my days when I started as a web developer (late 2003), I knew maybe a little PHP and very little SQL. Maybe a bit more Perl. I didn't even know what VCSes were for. Granted, design patterns were not all the rage in those days (but CMMI5 was). I was given a feature to implement in an internal company's project, and I had a bloke actually sit with me and explain how shit is done. I was "junior developer", not exactly "trainee", as I came with at least some knowledge of stuff.
What I'm hearing now is that someone with zero experience needs to already know all those on a good enough level to dig through the shit of code written by others and fix their bugs, all according to the best practices.
I dunno, suddenly an entry-level position is on a damn steep cliff. I must have been lucky to start when it was easy and computering was simple. Is it just me being outdated and fucked, or just this particular company being fucked, or has the world bent over and fucked itself?
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Sounds like the company is idiotic. If you don't have certain skills on your resume that you are looking for you are supposed to ask about it on the interview. If the candidate admits he/she doesn't have those skills you have to decide whether to hire and train them or choose someone else who has stronger skills. If they didn't do that, they are stupid.
Heck, even seasoned workers are going to have some gaps in their skill sets, and if they go into a job that requires those skills, they should expect some training.
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@wft said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
how should their job look like?
Google "swap.avi". That's how it will look.
Filed under : Don't google "swap.avi". For the love of all that's holy, don't Google "swap.avi"
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@tufty said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@wft said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
how should their job look like?
Google "swap.avi". That's how it will look.
Filed under : Don't google "swap.avi". For the love of all that's holy, don't Google "swap.avi"
Oh yeah, I remember that "movie". Boring as fsck!
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@Tsaukpaetra I just saw a screenshot from the movie and it made me sick.
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@dangeRuss said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra I just saw a screenshot from the movie and it made me sick.
Pray you maintain your innocence on your journeys through the Internet!
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I came into my first 'entry level' position (the one one working for our old friend
JacScott Slocum) with the expectation that I knew as much if not more than the lead dev did about certain aspects of the tools they were using. Sadly, I did.
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@wft there should be a start, and what is the best way to learn than jump in and try not to drown. Maybe trainer should throw a life-jacket after an hour-long of fighting for his life, maybe not.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@dangeRuss said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra I just saw a screenshot from the movie and it made me sick.
Pray you maintain your innocence on your journeys through the Internet!
I think maybe I just ate too much... that and the description from something awefull i think was worse then the movie probably is.
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@dangeRuss said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@dangeRuss said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra I just saw a screenshot from the movie and it made me sick.
Pray you maintain your innocence on your journeys through the Internet!
I think maybe I just ate too much... that and the description from something awefull i think was worse then the movie probably is.
From Urban Dictionary:
[18:51] <Tsaukpaetra> !ud swap.avi [18:51] <Tsaukpaetra_bot> a shock scat movie (50 minutes long) in which 4 brazilian sluts shit into each others anuses, shit back out the shit, eat the shit, vomit onto each other, vomit into their assholes, suck the vomit out of their assholes, etc. far worse than 2girls1cup OR 2girls1finger. [18:51] <Tsaukpaetra> Uhuh. [18:51] <DJ_Dichotomy> Nope, just nope.
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@Tsaukpaetra I mean, you do you and all... but YKINMK
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@Yamikuronue said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
YKINMK
"You Know I Need More Kink"
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
2girls1finger
I've never heard of this one. Were they involved in some sort of lawnmower accident?
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@Dreikin That too, but in this case I meant "Your Kink Is Not My Kink" (with the implied "but that's okay")
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@Yamikuronue said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
with the implied "but that's okay"
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
shit into each others anuses, shit back out the shit, eat the shit
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@ScholRLEA said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
Scott Slocum
That's a great name for a porn star.
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We've strayed pretty far off topic for a help thread.
@wft, your friend's employer sounds shit. Even if you're an experienced programmer, you get going a lot faster if someone goes through the code base with you to point out the quirks and gotchas, as well as the general structure and where to look for particular functionality. A new developer will need some mentoring, otherwise they'll turn out shit code. It's worth a few hours of a senior dev's time to accelerate the new hire's approach to writing production quality code
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When I was a junior engineer, my main responsibility was to answer the tech support line to allow more senior engineers to get shit done, as they had been bogged down in calls (hint: nobody owes you a job, and most jobs are created in response to a crisis). They knew I had some ability based on the interview, and gradually had me working on fixing bugs in the flagship application and correcting corrupted data caused by bugs in that same application.
There were a billion things wrong with that particular company's approach that I have elaborated upon in other threads, but I think the big picture is a good idea: train entry-level people in the business, gradually have them pay their dues and assign more work as they prove themselves more competent.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@dangeRuss said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@dangeRuss said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra I just saw a screenshot from the movie and it made me sick.
Pray you maintain your innocence on your journeys through the Internet!
I think maybe I just ate too much... that and the description from something awefull i think was worse then the movie probably is.
From Urban Dictionary:
[18:51] <Tsaukpaetra> !ud swap.avi [18:51] <Tsaukpaetra_bot> a shock scat movie (50 minutes long) in which 4 brazilian sluts shit into each others anuses, shit back out the shit, eat the shit, vomit onto each other, vomit into their assholes, suck the vomit out of their assholes, etc. far worse than 2girls1cup OR 2girls1finger. [18:51] <Tsaukpaetra> Uhuh. [18:51] <DJ_Dichotomy> Nope, just nope.
Always the Brazilian ladies.
While this doesn't sound particularly appealing, I do challenge anyone interested to look up and watch some Brazilian fart porn and try to keep a straight face while doing so.
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@Jaloopa said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
We've strayed pretty far off topic for a help thread.
I was just thinking that. The thread derailed so much...the rails have disintegrated.
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@Groaner said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@dangeRuss said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@dangeRuss said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra I just saw a screenshot from the movie and it made me sick.
Pray you maintain your innocence on your journeys through the Internet!
I think maybe I just ate too much... that and the description from something awefull i think was worse then the movie probably is.
From Urban Dictionary:
[18:51] <Tsaukpaetra> !ud swap.avi [18:51] <Tsaukpaetra_bot> a shock scat movie (50 minutes long) in which 4 brazilian sluts shit into each others anuses, shit back out the shit, eat the shit, vomit onto each other, vomit into their assholes, suck the vomit out of their assholes, etc. far worse than 2girls1cup OR 2girls1finger. [18:51] <Tsaukpaetra> Uhuh. [18:51] <DJ_Dichotomy> Nope, just nope.
Always the Brazilian ladies.
While this doesn't sound particularly appealing, I do challenge anyone interested to look up and watch some Brazilian fart porn and try to keep a straight face while doing so.
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The employee should know how to code. What is a loop and an if statement and logic and all that shit.
The employer should be training them on the tools. Here is the IDE and how to connect to our source code. Here's the tricks to compile. Have you ever pressed F12 in a browser no well here's how to do debugging.
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@Groaner said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
try to keep a straight face while doing so.
Is it that funny?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Groaner said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
try to keep a straight face while doing so.
Is it that funny?
Maybe he meant it was impossible not to grimace?
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@pydsigner said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Groaner said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
try to keep a straight face while doing so.
Is it that funny?
Maybe he meant it was impossible not to grimace?
Oh. I suppose that makes more sense then...
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@pydsigner said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Tsaukpaetra said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
@Groaner said in How does a trainee (or how you call a complete entry-level) developer position look?:
try to keep a straight face while doing so.
Is it that funny?
Maybe he meant it was impossible not to grimace?
Maybe he meant "you're totally gonna blow a dude".