Metro photo app
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@Ben L. said:
@Ronald said:
@StephenCleary said:
At least it's not as bad as IE: What were they thinking?
The article is mildly interesting (basically it's a web designer that is getting his panties in a bunch about a proprietary viewport class). He's not all out against IE - he says that IE is a piece of shit when you resize the window in Metro but is behaving better than other mainstream browsers in desktop.
No, he says that IE is a piece of unusable shit on Windows 8 Style User Interface Series. He says nothing about IE versus other browsers.
Yes he does. Here is the exact quote since you obviously can't keep track of what is said in long articles:
@The Article said:
You have 3 different mainstream browsers and every single one of them behaves differently with only full desktop IE doing the right thing.
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@anonymous234 said:
Also, the start menu puts commonly used and recently installed software in the most accessible location, whereas the start screen just shoves everything at the end (the exact opposite) and leaves it up to you to organize your shit.
This has actually been fixed in 8.1 Now nothing gets added to the start screen by default. You have to manually add it there from the All Apps screen if you want it.
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@ender said:
@Maciejasjmj said:
when the Start screen is used in the exact same way (Ctrl+Esc, start typing the name of the program, Enter)
Except that it puts Programs, Settings and Files to separate subpages, and keyboard navigation is clumsy - doing the same thing as in old Start Menu takes several more keypresses. 8.1 breaks this even further - it doesn't seem to find any Control Panel items that have a similar name as a program (eg. I've got ImDisk installed; in Start Menu typing imdisk would find it's executable [useless in this context, since that's a command-line program], Control Panel icon and the desktop shortcut to Control Panel icon; Start Screen in 8.1 only finds the useless executable; Start Screen in 8.0 found the same items as Start Menu, but to get to Control Panel result you had to press Tab, down, Enter, Enter, and press Enter again - compare this with Start Menu, where you only needed to press down twice, followed by Enter, and you could see the result immediately).
Oh, and I almost forgot: in Start Menu, both what you were typing and the results were relatively close together. On Start Screen, the input box and categories are on the right side of the screen, the results on the left side - quite a distance on both 24" and 30" monitors I use.The last one is fixed in 8.1, the first one too, and not looking for desktop shortcuts is, I agree, kinda stupid. Also, funnily, typing in a command with actual switch (such as "cmd /c chrome") will let you execute that command, but it defaults to search - you have to press down to navigate to the command.
Oh, and the first result that Bing finds for "cmd /c chrome"? http://cmderotic.com/CHROME-COCKRINGS_c5.htm (NSFW, obviously).
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@El_Heffe said:
I have yet to see a Microsoft ad for anything that contains any useful information. Instead ,they prefer pointless crap like this.
So what's your opinion on their animes?
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@Zecc said:
@El_Heffe said:
I have yet to see a Microsoft ad for anything that contains any useful information. Instead ,they prefer pointless crap like this.
So what's your opinion on their animes?I kind of liked this one, though. At least it's somewhat about IE
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@Maciejasjmj said:
@Zecc said:
@El_Heffe said:
I have yet to see a Microsoft ad for anything that contains any useful information. Instead ,they prefer pointless crap like this.
So what's your opinion on their animes?I kind of liked this one, though. At least it's somewhat about IE
I would be curious to know how a young web designers who never had to work with IE before 9 would compare IE and FF. Lately all the "if it works in THAT browser it works in ALL browsers" tests I do are with FF.
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@Arnavion said:
This has actually been fixed in 8.1 Now nothing gets added to the start screen by default.
That's laughably bad. It's got to be straight from The Onion's IT section.
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@Ronald said:
I would be curious to know how a young web designers who never had to work with IE before 9 would compare IE and FF. Lately all the "if it works in THAT browser it works in ALL browsers" tests I do are with FF.
They will curse and grind their teeth, since IE9 doesn't support text-shadow, gradients, and supports rotation only with vendor-prefix.
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@dhromed said:
@Arnavion said:
This has actually been fixed in 8.1 Now nothing gets added to the start screen by default.
That's laughably bad. It's got to be straight from The Onion's IT section.How so? I don't like the start screen as much as the next guy, but how else would you have done it if you absolutely had to leave the Start Screen concept as it is?
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@Arnavion said:
How so?
Because the start screen is where people go for their newly installed applications. And then they see it's not there. And then, if after a moment of being completely puzzled, you realize that you have to look for it in All Apps (a well-hidden feature), then good luck scrolling left-to-right through a marsh of unused crap to find the thing you want to pin.
@Arnavion said:
if you absolutely had to leave the Start Screen concept as it is?
That's kind of like a catch-22.
The primary problems with the start screen are the illusion of organisation (it looks like a clean overview-- but it's actually a mess), and the fact that will inescapably devolve into the typical crowded desktop of icons, without any way of cleaning it up.
The start screen is junk.
My solution would be to not use the start screen on desktop and/or mouse-controlled devices. I clung to the old-old start menu, when the then-new start menu in XP was out, and that was stupid, sure, but improvements were made with vista and 7, and it became a mature piece of UI that I liked.
And then we got this broken-by-design thing. The only reason my own screen isn't a complete mess is because it's terribly conservative about installing things. You should see the All Apps screen. it's already a UI joke. I don't want to see it with someone who installs far more than I do!
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@dhromed said:
@Arnavion said:
How so?
Because the start screen is where people go for their newly installed applications. And then they see it's not there. And then, if after a moment of being completely puzzled, you realize that you have to look for it in All Apps (a well-hidden feature), then good luck scrolling left-to-right through a marsh of unused crap to find the thing you want to pin.
I've gotten into the habit of using the search feature instead of finding it visually, it's much faster than even the old start menu's feature
@dhromed said:@Arnavion said:
if you absolutely had to leave the Start Screen concept as it is?
That's kind of like a catch-22.
The primary problems with the start screen are the illusion of organisation (it looks like a clean overview-- but it's actually a mess), and the fact that will inescapably devolve into the typical crowded desktop of icons, without any way of cleaning it up.
The start screen is junk.
My general policy is that only the very most used things go on the start menu, and everything else goes into the mess, only findable via search. It seems to work well.
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@dhromed said:
@Arnavion said:
How so?
Because the start screen is where people go for their newly installed applications. And then they see it's not there. And then, if after a moment of being completely puzzled, you realize that you have to look for it in All Apps (a well-hidden feature), then good luck scrolling left-to-right through a marsh of unused crap to find the thing you want to pin.The Start Screen is more of an analogue to the pinned list of things that show in the original start menu, and the All Apps screen is the "All Programs" link. So it makes sense that new things don't get automatically pinned to the start menu, but you can find them in "All Programs" and pin them if you wish.
@dhromed said:
You should see the All Apps screen. it's already a UI joke. I don't want to see it with someone who installs far more than I do!
I'll have to check what I did on my (rarely used) W8.1 VM at home, but I think I got it to arrange the icons in a program-hierarchy similar to the original start menu. The one problem I remember having was that the names of programs get truncated with no way to see the full name.
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@lushr said:
I've gotten into the habit of using the search feature instead of finding it visually, it's much faster than even the old start menu's feature
With some attention, the screen is a decent sort of Quicklaunch bar. New additions go to the end at the right, and odn't mess with the positions of my leftmost group.
@lushr said:
My general policy is that only the very most used things go on the start menu, and everything else goes into the mess, only findable via search. It seems to work well.
I don't think there's any other way of using it, so yeah. :\
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@Arnavion said:
The Start Screen is more of an analogue to the pinned list of things that show in the original start menu, and the All Apps screen is the "All Programs" link.
I use pinned items in Vista, sure, but the All Programs link is only availably when you right-click and then click All Apps. It's arguably undiscoverable and certainly less quick.
@Arnavion said:
I'll have to check what I did on my (rarely used) W8.1 VM at home, but I think I got it to arrange the icons in a program-hierarchy similar to the original start menu.
I am on the edge of my seat.
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@dhromed said:
@Arnavion said:
I'll have to check what I did on my (rarely used) W8.1 VM at home, but I think I got it to arrange the icons in a program-hierarchy similar to the original start menu.
I am on the edge of my seat.
"By category"
@dhromed said:
but the All Programs link is only availably when you right-click and then click All Apps. It's arguably undiscoverable and certainly less quick.
In 8.1 it's no longer right-click -> click "All Apps". Instead there's a little down arrow button at the bottom left of the Start Screen. Kinda more discoverable?
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@lushr said:
I've gotten into the habit of using the search feature instead of finding it visually, it's much faster than even the old start menu's feature
Search only works if you know what you are searching for. I used to have a wonderfully hierarchical XP start menu that categorised the applications by type and subtype. That way I didn't need to know the name of a particular app, I just needed to know the class of action I wanted to perform and the start menu graph would direct me to the list of applications that were suitable. This was especially useful for odd-ball programs that I only need to use once in a blue moon, whose name I never could remember but I knew I needed a certain functionality. Of course if the search database is decently populated then that does undermine my point a bit.
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@OzPeter said:
Search only works if you know what you are searching for.
To be fair, even mind-reading wouldn't help recover information you've forgotten. You're not only asking to be freed from the burden of clarifying your ideas, but also of remembering anything. I think you'll have to wait for 8.2 for that.
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@Arnavion said:
Instead there's a little down arrow button at the bottom left of the Start Screen. Kinda more discoverable?
Yup.
Is the background image a new feature in 8.1? I only have obvious options for the login screen and desktop background.
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@OzPeter said:
That way I didn't need to know the name of a particular app, I just needed to know the class of action I wanted to perform and the start menu graph would direct me to the list of applications that were suitable.
To be honest, I really don't think like that, save for broad strokes: In XP, I had a curated "games", "applications" and "work" submenu, and then there was the "Accessories" thing that every installer dumped its shit into.
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@Ronald said:
Lately all the "if it works in THAT browser it works in ALL browsers" tests I do are with FF.
I find that funny considering the track record Webkit has for leaving stupid, hard-to-detect and impossible-to-work-around bugs open for years on end. (Hardware-accelarated rendering and border-radius clipping say hello...)
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@Ragnax said:
Hardware-accelarated rendering and border-radius clipping say hello...
I'mhaving some weird occasional issues with FF with hardware, and can you elaborate on the bradius-clipping? I've seen weird box/shadow seams in FF.
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@dhromed said:
Is the background image a new feature in 8.1? I only have obvious options for the login screen and desktop background.
There's a setting (somewhere) to use the desktop background as the start screen background.
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@Arnavion said:
@dhromed said:
Is the background image a new feature in 8.1? I only have obvious options for the login screen and desktop background.
There's a setting (somewhere) to use the desktop background as the start screen background.
IIRC, in Windows 7 it was a reg key. No idea about Windows 8.
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@OzPeter said:
I used to have a wonderfully hierarchical XP start menu that categorised the applications by type and subtype. That way I didn't need to know the name of a particular app, I just needed to know the class of action I wanted to perform and the start menu graph would direct me to the list of applications that were suitable. This was especially useful for odd-ball programs that I only need to use once in a blue moon, whose name I never could remember but I knew I needed a certain functionality..
I've used that same type of hierarchical start menu since the earliest days of XP and I still use it today in Windows 7. The idea that the best way to find something on my computer is to search for it strikes me as just plain stupid. The only time I've ever searched for anything has been the odd occasion when a file was inadvertantly saved to the wrong location. I have no real hands-on experience with Windows 8, but if this type of organization is no longer possible, then that is a deal breaker, not to meantion a gigantic step backwards..@OzPeter said:if the search database is decently populated then that does undermine my point a bit.
Not really. No matter how perfect the search database is, search only works if you know what you are searching for.
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@El_Heffe said:
The idea that the best way to find something on my computer is to search for it strikes me as just plain stupid.
Yes, but not having to click on just the right places to navigate a hierarchical menu when you do know what you want is just as stupid. That's why I use KDE, where I have a good search utility (it includes the descriptions, so when I type word into the search I get word processors, password utilities, and a dictionary) and a nice hierarchical menu to find various stuff.
I haven't used Windows 8 yet, but I'm planning on getting a new system in a few weeks that'll probably dual boot it. I'll probably mainly run it to laugh at the people who have to use it all the time.
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@El_Heffe said:
The idea that the best way to find something on my computer is to search for it strikes me as just plain stupid.
Try it.
Meanwhile, I'll be here, performing a task with the rarely used application that I nonetheless found instantly.
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@Ronald said:
@Ben L. said:
@Ronald said:
@StephenCleary said:
At least it's not as bad as IE: What were they thinking?
The article is mildly interesting (basically it's a web designer that is getting his panties in a bunch about a proprietary viewport class). He's not all out against IE - he says that IE is a piece of shit when you resize the window in Metro but is behaving better than other mainstream browsers in desktop.
No, he says that IE is a piece of unusable shit on Windows 8 Style User Interface Series. He says nothing about IE versus other browsers.
Yes he does. Here is the exact quote since you obviously can't keep track of what is said in long articles:
@The Article said:
You have 3 different mainstream browsers and every single one of them behaves differently with only full desktop IE doing the right thing.
The other two browsers are Mobile IE and Windows 8 Style User Interface IE
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@dhromed said:
@Ragnax said:
Hardware-accelarated rendering and border-radius clipping say hello...
I'mhaving some weird occasional issues with FF with hardware, and can you elaborate on the bradius-clipping? I've seen weird box/shadow seams in FF.- #71639: border-radius and overflow:hidden don't play nice with img tags
- #157218: css transform and transition break hidden overflow on border-radius
- (and probably just about every other border radius clipping issue reported in between as well)
Basically; because of the way Webkit's compositor organizes hardware-accelerated content into separate layers in the rendering tree it screws up the inheritance of the border-radius clip mask.
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@TDWTF123 said:
To be fair, even mind-reading wouldn't help recover information you've forgotten.
This is why shopping lists, address books and encyclopedias are completely useless.
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@Zecc said:
This is why shopping lists, address books and encyclopedias are completely useless.
It doesn't have to be; we can put them in Excel!
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@dkf said:
@Zecc said:
This is why shopping lists, address books and encyclopedias are completely useless.
It doesn't have to be; we can put them in Excel!Just under your Tweeter feed* of course.
* the guy who pretends to be the boss in that clip is a great actor.
