HTML tag abuse thread

Arantor

If it were an article by anyone other than you, I'd agree it would have been maybe semi-relevant. But because it's you and you just have to pimp your blog at any opportunity, we both came to the conclusion of spam first and relevant second.

And if you create ridiculously bad regexes in the first place, you're going to get terrible performance. I actually looked at the change Sam pointed to, and it wasn't a terribly bad regex in the first place. It wasn't great, sure, but it certainly wasn't terrible under normal conditions.

faoileag

@codinghorror said:

Really? Not related to the prior posts about bad regex affecting performance in the editor here? Try again.

So why didn't you reply to them or quote them? You are the one who's pushing Discourse as a means of better discourse on the web. As it stood, your post was out of the flow of the conversation and the missing reply / quote a barrier to understanding the context.

@faoileag said:

So you see it as your job now to discipline members of this community?

@codinghorror said:

Have discipline about reporting bugs in the correct category. If you cannot do that, they will be moved to the correct category on your behalf, because I love you.

What is it with you? Have you read too much "1984" without understanding it? And I won't even start with Mielke's "But I have loved you all!" for a more recent example of "love in dictatorships".

@codinghorror said:

If that is a problem for you, perhaps there are other places on the Internet you would find more to your liking.

So this is your forum now, is it? You have taken over TDWTF from @apapadimoulis? Or why are you insinuating I might better leave?

To clarify: I very much like TDWTF's community of rum, mischievous but most of all intelligent bastards. And I tolerate Discourse to be part of that community.

On the other hand, if you can't take criticism of your person or your blog, perhaps it is you who should leave.

faoileag

@Arantor said:

A semi-compliment
Succinct but accurate
Not one of Morbs' but seems apt

But this is the one I was looking for which seems the best description yet.

Great, thank you!

Filed under: bookmarked for future reference.

Arantor

Actually, we're not all intelligent bastards. Some of us merely aspire to be intelligent bastards but have to content ourselves with merely knowing that we're not quite there yet.

Then there's Jeff, and I've run out of words for Jeff. I believe in giving people respect where respect is due, and to Jeff's credit he has achieved some things that are laudable - and he's had the balls to put his money where his mouth is to build Discourse. But acting like the twunt he has been has eroded most of what respect I once held for him.

I will say, Discourse isn't the worst forum software I've seen - but I'm posting from a laptop with a good internet connection and a current browser. It's far from the best, though, and if @sam, @riking, @ben_lubar and others I know I've missed (but don't necessarily know who) hadn't been working on trying to make it less fucked up, I don't think even the most stalwart of us would have tolerated Discourse the way we have.

That's the part I most resent in all of this, such as whatever I am in TDWTF's community: that Jeff has not only introduced his software to the community but tried to shape the community to how he thinks it should be and he doesn't have that right. In fact I'm not even sure Alex and co have that right any more.

ben_lubar

I clicked my notification and these were the three words I saw first:

Filed under: I was worried

faoileag

@ben_lubar said:

I clicked my notification and these were the three words I saw first:

Filed under: I was worried

It's probably something freudian. That should worry you.

Filed under: no, not the british painter

Onyx

@ben_lubar said:

I clicked my notification and these were the three words I saw first:

Filed under: I was worried

If I saw that with my name my reaction would be: "Ok, what did I do this time?"

I find that it helps with stubborn users in some cases. I come to them admitting defeat in advance, and when I prove to them they actually fucked up they take it better. Also, if it is my fuckup they don't get to be smug about putting me down.

Arantor

In my case it usually was me that broke it in the first place...

faoileag

@Onyx said:

If I saw that with my name my reaction would be: "Ok, what did I do this time?"

Actually, being one of them, I probably would as well.

In this forum, though, a mention of @sam, @riking and @ben_lubar in the same sentence as "Discourse" usually is a bit of an effort to assure them that they are not blamed for Discourse's shortcomings.

Filed under: We've got Jeff for the blame anyway

Arantor

Indeed. They're not to blame for its shortcomings as far as I'm concerned and I specifically wanted to point out that they have gone above and beyond in terms of putting up with the vitriol that we've spewed forth and actually tried to do something about it.

DrakeSmith

@faoileag said:

Filed under: no, not the british painter

Schlemiel?

dkf

@faoileag said:

making an issue of (x+x+)+y is ridiculous

But people write similar things, such as ((x+)x+)\1+y. They also write nasty things in the real world, but tend to use longer things than x and y there. It usually seems to be some sort of desperate attempt to avoid tokenizing and parsing things properly, but that's not the RE engine's fault really…

Filed under: I have fixed bugs in an RE engine in the past, and “horrendous” is a useful word here…

end

@faoileag said:

So why didn't you reply to them or quote them?

That's a fair point, I thought I did. But there were 10-20 replies upstream about regex slowness and fixes. And RegexBuddy is amazing as it can show you exactly how much performance hit each Regex is incurring, e.g. "hey look this takes 5,000 steps to evaluate!"

@faoileag said:

So this is your forum now, is it?

@Arantor said:

that Jeff has not only introduced his software to the community but tried to shape the community to how he thinks it should be and he doesn't have that right

I take responsibility for (most of) the bugs reported here, yes. Which means they need to be extracted, if necessary, from the 100+ random off topic digressions that make up each topic here. Or you could, y'know, post bugs in the correct category here designed for that very purpose. Crazy talk I know. How dare I try to change your behavior. How dare I, sir!

Criticism doesn't bother me. It comes with being a public figure. What does bother me is when people object to me doing my fucking job. So yes, if you have some sort of congenital objection to me reserving the right to move reported bugs to the correct category here, then you should probably leave. Or get over it like a professional.

Arantor

So what you're saying is that unless we give you bug reports in the format you expect, you're going to ignore them unless you get your way, or you'll just have your way anyway.

The thing is, we'd post bugs in the bug category more often if:

We didn't frequently see cases of bugs being declared not actually bugs (meaning that it feels like a slap in the face and a waste of time).
We didn't frequently encounter bugs pretty much everywhere... we point them out where we notice them, but because they happen so often, we can't be bothered to do your job for you on top of being unwilling beta testers in the first place.

Indeed, yes, how dare you try to change our behaviour! If you hadn't been such a twunt to us in the first place, we'd have been more amenable to playing by your rules - but from the start you tried to enforce your rules on this community. This community works by being creatively anarchic. Trying to enforce order on it because that's your idea of civilised discussion - and then trying to do the same by way of the strawman of 'but I need you to do that for accurate bug reporting'... it doesn't fly.

This entire forum is about people having to deal with WTFs. Were this any other situation, you would have been soundly derided like the WTF you are being.

But since the choices are 'me ignoring your bullshit that you're going to perform anyway' or 'leaving', I'll pick the latter. I have enough WTFs in my life without having to be compounded by you.

sam

This post is deleted!

sam

@Arantor said:

We didn't frequently see cases of bugs being declared not actually bugs (meaning that it feels like a slap in the face and a waste of time).

I object to this, we clearly can't fix every little niggle in the software, we try to keep the bugs category reasonable small. I think it is a fair happy medium to allow us once category that is immune to the anarchy thing, to a degree. This mean that we try hard to keep reasonable parity between what you would see here https://meta.discourse.org/category/bug and what you would see in the bugs category here.

Looking through the closed bugs here, http://what.thedailywtf.com/category/meta/bug?status=closed I is a very hard struggle for me to point at any behavior that could prove that "bugs being declared as not bugs", it may have happened a couple of times there but the vast majority is just triaged and fixed.

ben_lubar

+1 for blakeyrant
-1 for not ALL CAPS YELLING

darkmatter

You're so getting fired!

Matches

http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/odd-ie-behavior-losing-focus/534

cough

faoileag

@sam said:

I object to this, we clearly can't fix every little niggle in the software, we try to keep the bugs category reasonable small.

Just my 2% on this. While I completely agree with you that not all bugs merit the same attention, "we try to keep the bugs category reasonable small" part is is something the Discourse team has caused and should fix in its backyard.

What I mean is that using Discourse as its own bugtracking system is the original wtf. If you used a decent bugtracking system like bugzilla, you wouldn't have these problems:

You could categorize bugs re severity / importance
You wouldn't need a special "Bug" category related to Discourse in a forum that is not about Discourse.
You wouldn't need to close bug topics, because discussion about the bug would happen elsewhere.

I agree that an offsite link like "report your bugs here" might be a barrier against bug reporting, but that could be easily fixed: add a "report bug" button in Discourse which opens a nice little bug reporting window that sends the data to the backend which in turn adds it to bugzilla and reports back with a link to the bug in bugzilla the user may or may not use to see what progress is made on the bug.

The Discourse wayof handling bug reporting (i.e. adding a bug tracking category to the site using Discourse) is quite unique. It goes against what is SOP basically everywhere else and yes, that is an invitation for trouble (at least in the TDWTF forum).

faoileag

@codinghorror said:

What does bother me is when people object to me doing my fucking job. So yes, if you have some sort of congenital objection to me reserving the right to move reported bugs to the correct category here, then you should probably leave.

What you don't seem to get is: it is not your job to alter public discussion in a forum by moving posts out of one thread into another at your discretion.

It has been your decision not to use a decent bug tracking system but instead using Discourse for it. IMHO it is not the best decision you could have made but I respect it; you will have had your reasons for it.

But that decision can not be an excuse to move posts at whim from one thread to another. Instead you could:

Clone the relevant posts (it is your software, develop the functionality if it doesn't exist)
Manually copy the information into new posts
Add backlinks from the bug topic to relevant posts in the original thread.

But moving posts is such a deep intrusion into the discussion that people are rightly incensed.

Zecc

@codinghorror said:

right to move reported bugs to the correct category here,

You want to use TDWTF's forum as a bugtracker for some reason. Uhm, ok... but..

** Make. ** ** A post. ** ** With. ** ** A Link. ** ** (And quote) **

...To the original post where the bug was originally reported. You **don't** have to **move** anything.

Look, how meta.

Edit: yeah, seems like @faoileag beat me by about 16 hours. Somehow I missed it.

Frank

@codinghorror said:

Let me do my fucking job!

FTFY

Tropic Thunder HD - Less Grossman Gets Angry:

http://youtu.be/RLcNgawiCJM

darkmatter

@Zecc said:

You want to use TDWTF's forum as a bugtracker for some reason. Uhm, ok... but..** Make. **** A post. **** With. **** A Link. **** (And quote) **...To the original post where the bug was originally reported.You don't have to move anything

@ Zecc said:

Edit: yeah, seems like @faoileag beat me by about 16 hours. Somehow I missed it.

This totally hasn't been said at least 10 times in 5 other topics.

edit - also, if I add a space to your name in the second quote, at least I don't get hash soup (although the preview still shows hashcrap)

Matches

Hash soup sounds terrible unless it has a ton of ketchup in it.

ben_lubar

@Matches said:

Hash soup sounds terrible unless it has a ton of ketchup in it.

What if you add "browns"?

Filed under: #soup

faoileag

What if ...

http://what.thedailywtf.com/uploads/default/3534/5700069f0bcf7d79.jpg

What, no preview?

Edit: first try to locally duplicate an image from Discourse in Discourse.

faoileag

Again, just the link??

http://what.thedailywtf.com/uploads/default/_optimized/5f9/402/37666b48a6_500x500.jpg

Did Alex do something to image referencing?

Edit: ok, it looks as if Discourse just doesn't inline an image with an image url that already points to Discourse.

ben_lubar

faoileag

I see. How?

ben_lubar

I put i0.wp.com/ right after the http://

faoileag

Looks like that's not what I wanted to do. I wanted Discourse to download-and-make-a-local-copy of an image Discourse had previously downloaded-and-made-a-local-copy-off. Using a http://what.thedailywtf.com url.

PJH

@faoileag said:

Looks like that's not what I wanted to do. I wanted Discourse to download-and-make-a-local-copy of an image Discourse had previously downloaded-and-made-a-local-copy-off. Using a http://what.thedailywtf.com url.

Without mutilating the URL somehow as @ben_lubar did, I don't think that's going to happen:

Matches

Question marks and slashes are your friend. ?/

wut

Arantor

Insanity for all!

Luhmann

@Arantor said:

Insanity for all!

No thank you, I already brought my own.

faoileag

THIS IS A POST THAT ONLY CONTAINS LETTERS IN CAPS NO PUNCTUATION WHATSOEVER BUT AN ENDLESS STREAM OF WORDS IN CAPS THAT WILL MAKE IT VERY HARD TO READ THIS POST AND DISCOURSE DOES NOT OFFER MEANS TO ROLL IN THIS POST SO THAT YOU DONT SEE THIS MONSTROSITY OK WHAT ELSE TO BE OR NOT TO BE THAT IS THE QUESTION HERE I KNEW HIM WELL HORATIO WHEN WILL WE THREE MEET AGAIN AND WHAT DOES THE HHGTTG HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THAT IS IT OK TO QUOTE SHAKESPEARE IN ALL CAPS WHAT ABOIT BYRON OR WORDSWORTH AH WORDSWORTH IN XANADU DID KUBLA KHAN A STATELY PLEASURE DOME DECREE WHERE ALPH THE SACRED RIVER RAN HOLD ON ALF THE ALIEN LIFE FORM OH NO ITS PH AND NOT F SO CATS ARE SAFE THERE WHAT ELSE WOULD MAKE SENSE PORPHYRIAS LOVER OR SOMETHINK LIKE YESTERDAY ALL MY TROUBLES SEEMED SO FAR AWAY ROLLOVER BEETHOVEN NOW THE LAST WOULD BE GREAT FOR FASPIN OK I THINK THIS SUFFICES I WILL STOP NOW a

Arantor

It's hard to know what is a suitable response to that. So I'm simply going to describe that as Belgium-worthy.

faoileag

@Arantor said:

I'm simply going to describe that as Belgium-worthy.

heh, heh, heh, you said "Belgium", *snigger*, *snigger*

Zecc

@faoileag said:

THIS IS A POST THAT ONLY CONTAINS LETTERS IN CAPS [...] a

faoileag

@Zecc said:

@faoileag said:
THIS IS A POST THAT ONLY CONTAINS LETTERS IN CAPS [...] a

Discourse made me do it!

Arantor

A fine excuse. A bit more inventive than 'my dog ate my homework', at least.

Zecc

I saw an episode of The Dog Whisperer where Cesar dealt with a dog which chew pretty much everything he could get a hold of.

One of the kids was complaining about how he once lost his homework because of the dog and how the teacher simply wouldn't believe him. Hilarious.

faoileag

@Zecc said:

One of the kids was complaining about how he once lost his homework because of the dog and how the teacher simply wouldn't believe him. Hilarious.

Teachers. Tell them the truth and they won't believe you. I have fallen into that trap as well.

Onyx

@Zecc said:

One of the kids was complaining about how he once lost his homework because of the dog and how the teacher simply wouldn't believe him. Hilarious.

I had a friend's cat eat our assignement. Well, ok, not really "eat", but it was a poster, and I don't think the teacher would appreciate us bringing a poster that has been chewed on and scratched.

Matches

Matches

Matches

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RTapeLoadingError

What's going on?

faoileag

@RTapeLoadingError said:

What's going on?

script injection trial & error from the looks. @Matches: any useful conclusions you could share?